John Lee Dumas is the founder of Entrepreneur On Fire, a daily podcast that revolves around the stories of business startups and successes. John spent over 8 years in the Army, and then tried to get into the finance world. After listening to other podcasts, he realized that there was no “daily” content available. So John set off to start his own daily podcast. He wanted to interview entrepreneurs’ who were successful in their niche. Today, John still has his daily podcast show and has interviewed people such as Seth Godin, and Tim Ferriss. John has over 300 episodes and counting. In this show, Jason Hartman talks with John about how he got started and how he maintains his business. Learn more at http://www.entrepreneuronfire.com.
Narrator: Speakers, publishers, consultants, coaches and infomarketers unite. The Speaking of Wealth Show is your roadmap to success and significance. Learn the latest tools, technologies, and tactics to get more bookings, sell more products, and attract more clients. If you’re looking to increase your direct response sales, create a big-time personal brand, and become the go-to guru, the Speaking of Wealth Show is for you. Here’s your host, Jason Hartman.
Jason Hartman: Welcome to the Speaking of Wealth Show. This is your host, Jason Hartman, where we discuss profit strategies for speakers, publishers, authors, consultants, coaches, infomarketers, and just go over a whole bunch of exciting things that you can use to increase your business, to make your business more successful and more and more passive and more and more automated and more and more scalable. So we will be back with a great interview. Be sure to visit us at speakingofwealth.com. You can take advantage of our blog, subscribe to the RSS feed, and many other resources for free and SpeakingofWealth.com and we will be back with a great interview for you in less than 60 seconds.
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Start of Interview with John Lee Dumas
Jason Hartman: Hey, it’s my pleasure to welcome John Lee Dumas to the show. He has some fantastic insights and information to share. He heads up a very successful podcast entitled “Entrepreneur on Fire”. And, unlike most podcasters, he publishes every single day 7 days a week and is doing all sorts of great stuff with it, his membership program, his fire nation elite, and we’ll hear all about it. John, welcome, how are you?
John Lee Dumas: Jason, I’m doing great. Thank you so much for having me on the show today.
Jason Hartman: The pleasure is all mine. And you’re coming to us from, I believe, San Diego, is that correct?
John Lee Dumas: Sunny San Diego. It’s 68 degrees and sunny, shocking I know.
Jason Hartman: Fantastic, beautiful place. I love San Diego. Well, tell us a little bit about how you got started and maybe first when did you start? How old is the show?
John Lee Dumas: So, the show is a mere 11 months old. September 22nd of 2012 is the first day it was released into the universe, episode 1. We just released episode 306 today by somebody who’s been a past guest of your show actually, Dan Miller, went live on “Entrepreneur on Fire” today, so that was a lot of fun. 11 months old, the idea is a little less than 13 months old and that’s’ where we’re at.
Jason Hartman: Fantastic. And tell us about the inspiration for the show. I mean, do you have some businesses of your own and encounter all the typical joys and challenges and wanted to share those?
John Lee Dumas: Totally. Well, to give you a brief rundown of my past careers, I graduated college on a ROTC scholarship back in 2002, so we’re actually the first class of commissioned officers post-9/11. So we knew it was gonna be serious business and I spent the next 4 years as an active duty armor officer. 13 of those months were in Iraq and in 2006 I was 26. I got out, I tried law school, I tried commercial real estate, I tried residential real estate, corporate finance, tech startups, but nothing was quite feeling right, Jason. But one thing that I did kind of grasp onto, all this time I was spending in the car, driving to work, or driving to different appointments was podcasting because I loved the on demand content. I loved the fact that it was free. I loved that I could press PLAY and press STOP when I wanted to and there were no commercials or annoying advertisements. So, that drew me to it.
One day driving to work I ran out of content. I realized that everybody was doing once a week a show. There is nobody producing a 7 day a week show, and I knew there were other people like me out there who wanted a 7 day a week show to fill those commutes, to fill those gym sessions in the mornings walking the dog. So that was the aha moment – the light bulb went off – and the idea for Entrepreneur on Fire was born.
Jason Hartman: Fantastic. That’s a great story. And I tell you, as a consumer of podcasts myself, and of course a producer – we produce 16 different shows on our network, and I love them. I mean you say no commercials, but now we’re seeing more and more commercials about this. But they’re so minor. I mean, I remember on some of my shows, when I started doing commercials just promoting my own products, I got a few complaints. And I thought for one hour of my content you get 120 seconds of commercial content. Yet, if you listen to talk radio, you get 22 minutes of commercial content per hour. You only get 38 minutes of real content here. So we’re starting to see some commercials infiltrate the world of podcasting, but it’s not much, is it?
John Lee Dumas: I’d kind of like to throw a disclaimer in there too, because the word “commercial” to me is a little misleading, because what I love about podcasts is the fact that I really see much more of a trend than what I do on my show, Entrepreneur on Fire, towards sponsorships. And what I love about sponsorships is that it’s not like, okay, we’re cutting to commercial break and then it’s some annoying music…
Jason Hartman: Or some guy yelling at you.
John Lee Dumas: What happens is my sponsors, they give me talking points, and then I put them together in whatever kind of sponsorship format that I want to, and then it’s me talking to my audience about how I utilize these services and these products. And, again, it’s in my own voice, on my own time, and on my own calendar. So, they definitely do dilute the podcast on certain levels. I cannot disagree with anybody there. But, the leg of your point, Jason, that I agree, we give a lot of great content for free. So if I want to break in and chat about Audible who’s the sponsor of my podcast and a great audiobook they can check out, I think that they can put up with that.
Jason Hartman: Yeah, and I agree. And most people, Audible’s a good fit for them. I mean, I publish my books on Audible and also am a huge consumer of audiobooks from Audible. So most podcast listeners won’t mind listening to audiobooks either. So that’s a good fit.
Now, tell us about your format. Do you do a guest on every episode or some just you and sometimes you have a guest?
John Lee Dumas: So 7 days a week I bring on an inspiring and successful entrepreneur and have them share their journey. We don’t just talk about what they’re doing right now. We talk about when they failed back at the beginning part of their journey, how they overcame that failure, an aha moment that they had later on in their journey and then the steps they took to actually take that moment and turn it into success, and then, Jason, we get to present times. Because there was a huge chasm I thought that was out there when these interview shows will just bring people on and these successful entrepreneurs would talk about how successful they are. And I think that’s great because there’s a lot to learn there, but for a lot of listeners they’re like, okay, well, I’m not successful, so I can’t do those things. How do I get there? So I wanted to have Entrepreneur on Fire tell the journey, show that these people failed, they were fearful, they were scared, but you know what, they started taking action and good things resulted.
Jason Hartman: Yeah, that’s great. That’s much more relatable in that form that you mentioned. I remember when I was 17 years old listening to the late, great Earl Nightingale – that might be a name you know – and he said the most successful people think of how their business will be in the future. What do you see in the world of podcasting maybe 5 years from now? And 5 years in the world of the internet and podcasting, that’s pretty far in the future in internet years. Do you see the industry changing much?
John Lee Dumas: Wow, is it hard to predict the future these days because it is changing so quickly. One reason for this massive explosion of podcasting as of recently is the smartphone. I mean, smartphones have changed the game for podcasters because no longer do you need to go to iTunes with your iPod, download it to your iPod and then take your iPod with you and listen to it. Wherever you are, you hook up to Wi-Fi, hook up to 4G, download a podcast, listen to it for free in something that’s always in your pocket, a phone, and that’s been a game changer. That’s one reason why Entrepreneur on Fire is generating over 300,000 unique downloads because it’s so easy for people to do it and that’s a monthly number. That’s 300,000 downloads per month because the barrier is so low.
Now, talking about the future a little bit, I did just interview the CEO of Stitcher Radio, Noah Shanok. And something that’s really exciting for podcasting coming up is the fact that they’ve just inked deals and in the next 2 years Stitcher Radio’s going in the dashboard of our cars and Bluetooth connectivity is just gonna make it so you can get in your car, turn the dial to Stitcher Radio, get to Jason Hartman’s show, get to John Lee Dumas’s show, and actually be streaming it in your car. So that’s gonna be big-time trouble for the radio, but we’ll see what happens.
Jason Hartman: Yeah, we will see what happens. So that’s a fair question to ask. What do you think is the future of radio? Good old fashioned terrestrial radio, does that still have a place in the world?
John Lee Dumas: I can’t imagine it having much longer of a life personally just because I see where Pandora’s going, I see where Spotify’s going. I see these companies that are coming in and providing this kind of content in a much more targeted. That’s kind of the direction that we’re just going as a society is very much towards targeted niche. So, if I wanted to jump in and create and listen to a playlist that I’ve created, then I can do that through Spotify, through Pandora, whereas the radio is always gonna have the typical hangups that radio has. But who knows what’s gonna come out in 2 years that could totally obliterate podcasting? I mean, that’s why, as entrepreneurs, you have to stay on your feet, you have to be building the right types of audiences and the right types of quality content so when those changes do come, you can be ahead of the curve instead of squashed by it.
Jason Hartman: Very good point, very good point. So what are some of the most interesting guests you’ve had on the show? And I guess maybe I’m asking you to play favorites here a little bit.
John Lee Dumas: I have had some great guests. I mean, the guests who went live today, Dan Miller, he’s one of only 3 repeat guests that I’ve had in my 306 episodes. So that tells you I really do not do repeat guests. But I’ve had a couple, Dan being the 3rd repeat guest that I’ve had, and he’d run us a 48 Days community over at 48Days.com. It’s an amazing community, I love what he has going on with life events. And, again, it goes back to that audience that he’s building. I mean, even if podcasting will go away which is a huge part of his business, he would still be A-ok because he’s built a massive audience on other levels. So I think that’s really what’s great is that podcasting gives you an avenue to grow audiences and demographics on a different level, another stream besides just social media, besides just email, besides just your website. It’s another great demographic.
I’ve had Seth Godin on the show. He was an amazing guest. I really loved some of his insights. I made him take it back to the early days when he was with Yoyodyne working with AOL.
Jason Hartman: Even before Yahoo!, right? Wow.
John Lee Dumas: Yeah, and those are just some really interesting stories that not many people get to hear about Seth Godin and the same thing with Tim Ferris, Gary Vaynerchuk, Barbara Corcoran, these are all past guests of my show that have come on and shared some really intense failures that they’ve had and I think we learn so much from failures that I’m just fascinated by them.
Jason Hartman: Yeah, that’s fantastic. So how do you get your guests? I’ll just tell you my story for a moment. My first show is called The Creating Wealth Show. It’s a real estate investment show. It’s still my number 1 show, started it back in 2005. We’ve got 333 episodes posted now about an hour each. And for the first about 70 shows I really didn’t have guests on the show. I would just talk. And then I kind of was honestly running out of things to talk about. So I thought what am I gonna do now? I was panicking, the show was taking off and we were having some really good results with it, and getting these targeted, like you mentioned, John, these targeted clients to my real estate investment company, and we just such great clients from the podcasts because they were following the work, they were immersed in it, they were well educated. It’s like they were the easiest, most wonderful people in the world to work with versus a total stranger – you gotta explain everything to him and it’s just so much more work, right?
And so I started doing the guest thing and I found that when you’ve got one famous well-known guest in a particular field of study, for example, they all know each other in their sphere, right? So I got Peter Schiff and then I was able to get a bunch of other financial people like that, and Harry Dent and so on and so forth. So, it’s pretty easy, but I still get turned down even though I’ve had now Steve Forbes, I’ve had 3 presidential candidates on my show, and had some great big, big name guests. But, still, not everybody says yes. Any tips on getting guests?
John Lee Dumas: I think you do have definitely the right mentality about utilizing that social proof when you can. I mean, for me, when I was able to get Tim Ferris and Seth Godin, and I got those guys pretty early on in my show, I really was able to utilize their names and their social proof when reaching out to other guests. Sometimes it’s just not the right time for certain people because they’re incredibly busy, they might be in the middle of writing a book and they might want to wait until that book’s released before they start doing their major publicity stints and those can definitely be a lot of factors that go into whether a guest says yes or no, but for me I just really like being straightforward. I like sharing what Entrepreneur on Fire is, that is an interview style podcast. It’s audio only. It’s only gonna be 25 to 35 minutes in length, so it’s very non-invasive. It’s gonna be done over Skype. They can be sitting in their boxer shorts in their bedroom if they’d like to do it because it’s audio only again. And then it’s gonna reach a massive audience. Again, we had over 300,000 unique downloads in July in over 145 countries, all entrepreneurs, wantrepreneurs, and small business owners. And the people that I reach out to, these are great target markets for most of them.
So I really find it rare that people don’t actually come onto my show when I do reach out to them, because it just is kind of a no-brainer use of 25 minutes of their time, so that’s kind of where I would lead with. Lead with the value you’re providing to them. I mean, Entrepreneur on Fire now is a 7 day a week show and I’m booked out through November. So, as you can tell, at this point never reaching out to guests. I’m more kind of fending off all of these requests that I get on a daily basis. So, it’s really just one of those things where lead with the value that you’re going to provide.
Jason Hartman: Right, great point. So do you book all the guests yourself or like I have 2 different people that book guests for me. They’re contractors and they just get paid as a per guest basis for each one they book. Do you do it yourself or do you have someone do it for you?
John Lee Dumas: I do it all myself. I have my pretty legitimate systems in place. I do worth with virtual assistants that work 40 hours a week for me. I do have a business partner, Kate Erickson, who’s a director of content creation. So we do a team in place here, but with the actual scheduling software that’s out there, it’s really easy to book things nowadays and I just have no problems handling that on my own.
Jason Hartman: Mhm, what kind of software?
John Lee Dumas: I used Schedule once, and I’m an incredibly high raver of this. It allows me to use different links for different schedules. So for Entrepreneur on Fire, you can go to MeetMe.So/EntrepreneurOnFire and that will allow you to book yourself on Entrepreneur On Fire. Then you can do the /JohnLeeDumas and that will allow you to book me on your show. And then you can do something-else. And so everything can be segregated and it’s an automated process which takes all the ownness off of you, that back and forth is gone now. If someone reaches out to you and says, Jason, I would love you to be on my show, and you say “Okay, great. Here are the days that work for me. Have a blast, book me.” And then it’s all on them to go ahead and choose a date that works for now both of you because you’ve already showed the days that work for you and it’s an automated streamlined process.
Jason Hartman: Yeah, that looks like a great product by the way. I really like that. I mean, we just used the Google Calendars and everybody has access to them and everybody has access to them and so forth, and they’re great. But having it where you actually do it through a link and it’s real easy to us like that is a fantastic tool.
John Lee Dumas: And this integrates with Google Calendar which is huge.
Jason Hartman: Good stuff. And so you’re the number 1 business show now on iTunes, is that correct?
John Lee Dumas: Number 1. I just unseated Dave Ramsey this week.
Jason Hartman: Congratulations. So how did you do that? Like, did iTunes feature you ever or did you just organically grow that? Did you ever advertise? Talk about getting subscribers and listeners.
John Lee Dumas: So, really I knew that when I launched Entrepreneur on Fire I had a zero online presence. Literally, on a 1 to 10, it was a zero. I had zero online presence and I knew that if I wanted to grow a podcast and start getting subscribers and grow an audience, I was going to have to leverage my actual guests. And so that was a business model I utilized from day 1 is that inspiring and successful entrepreneurs all have one thing in common. They have massive audiences. And so by doing a 7 day a week show with these inspiring and successful entrepreneurs and then my first email every single day going out and saying “Hey, Jason, your interview on Entrepreneur on Fire just went live today. You shared an amazing journey. I would be honored if you would share this journey with your audience.” They turn around, share this journey with their audience, it’s a massive number of people being exposed to the Entrepreneur on Fire brand for the very first time, a certain proportion of those people are gonna listen, and a certain proportion of those listeners are gonna become subscribers. And when that happens once a week, you get steady growth. When that happens once a day, you get the snowball effect and that’s been compounding and then now when I just unseated Dave Ramsey and now that I’m number one, that organic traffic is incredible. And it’s huge because now just like people go to the top 40 to see what the best songs are on the radio, people literally go to the top business podcasts to search for the best business podcasts out there to fill their commutes or their time to the gym. And when they see Entrepreneur On Fire bright and shiny at number 1, they’re gonna check it out. So that compound effect continues. And speaking of being featured on iTunes, it wasn’t until recently, but in July I was featured for 7 days, and then actually as we’re speaking right now, which is August 22nd, I’m being featured again on the homepage of the iTunes podcast page for my 300th episode. So, again, that’s a huge, huge notoriety for Entrepreneur on Fire that’s’ happening as we speak because of that 7 day a week compound effect, building up to the bursting point.
Jason Hartman: Yeah, fantastic. That’s just great. Podcasters really have to consider iTunes to be a very, very important search engine. We all talk about SEO search engine optimization for our website, but when you’re a podcaster, iTunes is a big, big part of it, and now Stitcher is a pretty big part of it, too, but iTunes especially. Any tips on getting noticed in iTunes? Because a lot of it is just people looking for people. So maybe I’ll give you a little lead-in on that which you may mention actually if I didn’t, but I noticed when I started getting a lot of the famous guests on my show, I had Dan Miller on as well like you mentioned, people search for them and they find me. So that was a great thing too because people will go and look and maybe they don’t have a podcast but they have audiobooks or they were interviewed on someone else’s podcast and people want to find that thought leader and then they’ll find your show or my show in doing that, right?
John Lee Dumas: Absolutely. That’s exactly what happens. And, I mean, one thing that people really need to realize when they are looking to really get out there and have that show be noticed and started to be searchable is that iTunes SEO that you’re talking about because, just like nobody looked at YouTube as a search engine 5 years ago, nobody really looks at iTunes as a search engine, although 45 million people go to the iTunes store every single month. There’s one search bar and they’re using that search bar. So when they type in “Dan Miller”, when they type in the word “Entrepreneur”, when they type in “Build a business”, when they type in “marketing”, and you’re showing up in the search results as a free podcast, that’s a great way to be organically found. So definitely make sure that your title, your description, everything along those lines has the key words that you want people to find you for and you’ll be found.
Jason Hartman: Good advice. Well, any other promotional techniques or podcasting techniques in general that you want to share, John?
John Lee Dumas: Well, one thing for people that are thinking about launching a podcast that’s really huge and, again, it does go back to iTunes because just like Amazon is the kind of the jungle for authors and for books, iTunes is the king of the jungle for podcasts. Now, there are other directories out there, but about 85% of every podcaster’s downloads are going to come from iTunes. And so you definitely do want to be thinking iTunes. And when you’re first launching an actual podcast, iTunes does something incredible. For those 56 days, those first 8 weeks your podcast is live, you have the ability to be featured in the “New and Noteworthy” section and that is the very top 2 bars on the iTunes podcast page. It’s the best advertising real estate in the podcast universe besides being featured on the iTunes podcast homepage. So, it’s an incredible opportunity for people that just launched a podcast to get seen. And I love that iTunes does this. Entrepreneur on Fire has long since passed our ability to be featured here because we’re much older than 8 weeks old obviously, but I loved the ability that it gives for new podcasters to gain visibility. And I took full advantage of it, so I was the number 1 ranked business podcast in the New and Noteworthy section for almost all of the 8 weeks that I first launched. And new podcasts that come in have that opportunity.
Jason Hartman: Right, so you don’t have that opportunity if you’ve been there a while. It’s the newbies only, right?
John Lee Dumas: Only the newbies, so what that says is so many bloggers just blogged once and then left it alone for 2 years and then came back and started blogging seriously and that’s totally fine. If you do it as a podcaster, you’re giving up an amazing opportunity of launching the right way and getting into New and Noteworthy and making a huge splash.
Jason Hartman: Yeah, and that’s where a lot of eyeballs are there, a lot of mouse clicks happen there, so very, very important. Do you want to talk a little bit about monetization? I mean, you have a membership site and you have products too, right? And you have products too, right, books and such?
John Lee Dumas: Absolutely. I believe 100% in transparency, Jason. So, I mean, I am not gonna hide anything. Any questions that you feel as though your audience would like to know, I will love to answer, but I’ll give a couple income streams that entrepreneurs fire specifically as producing, again, as a podcast only business. So first and foremost is the sponsorships. I do have 6 full-time big-time sponsors, Audible, 99 Designs, Squarespace, LegalZoom. They are just great sponsors and they pay per the episode. And so the sponsor, an episode of Entrepreneur on Fire, is about $400. And I have 2 sponsors per episode, so that’s a total of $800 per episode.
You multiply that by 30 and you start to realize pretty quickly that’s a possible income of $24,000 per month sponsorships alone. Now, Entrepreneur on Fire usually hovers between 70% to 80% of actual being completely sold out. So we do generate over 5 figures every single month in the actual sponsorship realm.
Number 2, once you have that massive audience, Jason, you’re gonna start getting these emails from your listeners and from your audience and from people who are enjoying the content, and they’re going to be spelling out for you what they need, what they want. And one email that I kept getting over and over again was “John, I feel like I’m ready to start my entrepreneurial journey, but I’m all alone. No one surround me is supportive, nobody gets it, I have no like-minded entrepreneurs to share these experiences with.” So I started a membership masterminds which I refer to as FireNationElite.com. And Fire Nation Elite is literally just 82, as we speak, entrepreneurs, and it’s a membership mastermind, so it does cost $165 per month to be a part of it. And every single member of Fire Nation Elite, these 82 members, are there for each other. On a daily basis, we get together in forums and we ask questions and we get answers and feedback. And there’s calls to action and we have webinars. And we’re doing all these great things together as a group of like-minded motivated entrepreneurs, ensuring that we’re holding each other accountable and we’re having a lot of fun doing it. And there’s business that’s being transacted within fire nation elite. I mean, there are people who have said they have already made more money within the group than the entire year would cost. So it’s just a great way to really start interacting with action taking entrepreneurs. And if you do the math real quickly, that’s another $13,000 per month income stream that I’ve generated just off of the podcast and that’s a recurring monthly basis.
Now, number 3, there’s products. There’s services you can create. I didn’t just published, but I published back in February Podcast Launch which is a number 1 ranked book in Amazon on podcasts and it has over 135 five star reviews. It comes with 15 video tutorials and it’s a way that people can spend $5 and gain all the knowledge that I learned in this year plus about podcasting in a 35 page book, so it’s a great quick read, but it’s very powerful and it’s packed with information. And it’s all you need to start a podcast. And so that’s something else that my audience was telling me that they wanted this product out there, so I created it. And once you have that audience, just to kind of bring it all back together, Jason, they tell you what to create and then you just create it for them to continue to add value.
Jason Hartman: I think that’s one of the key things is listening to that feedback of your followers and really being almost like a polling organization. Okay, this is what people seem to be telling me they want, give it to them, but not so much so that you ignore your own vision for your show or your business because a lot of time consumers don’t know what they want really. I mean, use the example of Apple, Apple never holds a focus group. So it’s kind of like you have to look at that both ways I think. There are sort of 2 sides of it, but certainly becoming that conduit and just pleasing that audience and delivering the product they want. And, by the way, Podcast Launch, congratulations, 143 reviews, very well reviewed book and 5 stars, so that’s great.
John Lee Dumas: Yeah, and it’s not easy getting reviews on Amazon, let me tell you.
Jason Hartman: Oh, I know. That’s fantastic. Well, John, this has been great talking to you. Congratulations on your success and keeping the show working and getting such good information out there to people. Give out your website. I mean, you told people the name of the show several times, but maybe the actual website or your Twitter feed or anything else they might like to find out about you.
John Lee Dumas: Well, thanks for that, Jason. I mean, entrepreneur is a tricky word to spell, so my domain is EntrepreneurOnFire.com, but, Jason, I’ve made it a little easier for the listeners. They can just go to EOFire.com. That’s the same domain – that’s a little shortcut. It’s our headquarters. It’s where everything happens. You can subscribe to the podcasts there, we do great blog posts on a weekly, bi-weekly basis. Like, just entrepreneur specific, great resources, would love for you guys to check it out, and Jason, I just want to thank you for the opportunity to chat today, to you and your audience.
Jason Hartman: Well, the pleasure is all mine, John. Thank you and one last question for you. If you podcast every day, I mean aren’t you ever on vacation or do you ever get sick and you can’t do it, do you have a guest host fill in when you can’t or do you really just every day no matter what…
John Lee Dumas: It’s a great question. You’ve kind of opened up another Pandora’s box here, so I’ll try to answer as quickly as possible, but I batch process, so I do 8 interviews every single Monday. That being said, I actually am over 40 interviews in the “bank”. So I don’t actually even have to complete another episode until September 12th as we’re sitting right now. So, I mean there are still 20 days before I would even have to get out of bed if I so chose because that’s one of the beauties of podcasting. You really can do them batch and then schedule them out to release on a daily basis.
Jason Hartman: That is a fantastic way. I love the fact, like you mentioned, when you were listening in the car, it’s like email, it’s asynchronous so you can listen at your convenience. The podcaster can record at their convenience. And everybody wins. So it’s a great thing. John Lee Dumas, thank you for joining us today.
John Lee Dumas: Thank you, Jason. It’s been a pleasure.
Narrator: This show is produced by The Hartman Media Company, all rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.HartmanMedia.com or email media@HartmanMedia.com. Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own and the host is acting on behalf of Platinum Properties Investor Network, Inc. exclusively.
Transcribed by Ralph Jordan
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