Dan Schawbel is Managing Partner of Millennial Branding and author of, “Promote Yourself: The New Rules For Career Success.” He’s also the Founder of the Personal Branding Blog. He authored the #1 international bestselling book, “Me 2.0: 4 Steps to Building Your Future.”

Schawbel explains what future leaders need to know for career success and how social media is changing the game. He answers whether millenials are expensive to hire and retain. Schawbel also tells us more about. Millennial Branding and his Personal Branding Blog, and how he’s made them so popular. Find out more about Dan Schawbel at www.danschawbel.com. Visit the Personal Branding Blog at www.personalbrandingblog.com.

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Start of Interview with Dan Schawbel

Jason Hartman: It’s my pleasure to welcome Dan Schawbel to the show. He is the managing partner of Millennial Branding and author of the new book, Promote Yourself, the new rules for career success. He is the founder of the personal branding blog and author of the number 1 international bestselling book, Me 2.0: 4 Steps to Building Your Future. Dan, welcome, how are you?

Dan Schawbel: Great, how are you? Thanks for having me on.

Jason Hartman: My pleasure. Where are you located today?

Dan Schawbel: Boston, Massachusetts.

Jason Hartman: Ah, great town, fun place. So congratulations, the new book is out and it’s keeping you very busy. Tell us a little bit about it.

Dan Schawbel: Just like my last book is about personal empowerment, this one is more focused on once you have a job, how do you get ahead in the workplace? How do you really navigate the new workplace, the modern workplace, and it’s all about the new rules for career success and how to go about getting the right skills you need to be successful, understanding what managers are looking for, and really making an impact and going above and beyond the call of duty, and understanding that work is not just about a 9 to 5 job, it’s about what you do after you get home from the office, and that in the future there will be more freelancers than workers and more people working from home and things are completely changing, and how millennials are really affecting the work place in chapter one, and how they’re the future and, by 2025, they’ll be 75% of the global workplace and what is that workplace going to look like? And these are all things I’m really passionate about, I’ve done a lot of research on, and I think are really important to share with people who are looking to manage their careers and build a successful career as well as managers who are looking to manage this new growing population.

Jason Hartman: Well, we definitely will dive in and talk about millennials, but one of the things you mentioned is, you know, you talked about of course the freelancer movement, people working remotely, technology just allows us to do that. Which is a great thing, but you mentioned it’s important what you do at home. Now, what are you referring to? Are you referring to one’s social media profile? Or are you referring to studying and self-improvement?

Dan Schawbel: Everything. You know, it’s acquiring skills outside of work, maybe taking classes, maybe reading books, going to conferences, joining associations, doing activities with your coworkers, building your online personal brand, using blogs, social networks and all those new tools. It’s a combination of everything. It’s understanding that once you go home from work, things you do can help you advance in the workplace.

Jason Hartman: Well, give us some tips. Are there some recommendations there?

Dan Schawbel: Yeah, I mean one of the things you could do is you could join a Meetup group. Meetup.com or go to Eventbrite.com and search for events in your area. Also, if there’s a sports team or you know, your colleagues are going to some sort of event outside of work, trying to get involved in that as well. There’s so many different things you can do, obviously reading books that are relevant to your profession as well as a book like Promote Yourself, of course, understanding that you have to do continuous learning. You’re a student for life, you need to constantly evolve and adapt to change, and one of the most important things that I’ll do every morning is I’ll skim through hundreds of articles to find the ones that are most relevant to my world and when you do that you understand what’s going on in your profession, your industry, and once you hop on client calls or if you talk with your manager, you’ll sound so much smarter and in the know. And there’s a lot of value attributed to that. But if you’re not paying attention with what’s going on, you’re very irrelevant and you can easily be replaced if you’re not getting the skills not just of today, but of the future, the ones that are going to be very important in the future, then it’s going to be very hard for you to position yourself for success.

Jason Hartman: Now, you know, much has been written and talked about millennials, gen-y-ers in the workplace and how they are shaping the workplace and how they will in the future. Tell us some of the differences between generation y and generation x and then of course, the baby boomers.

Dan Schawbel: The biggest generational differences happen between boomers and millennials. That’s the biggest gap. Gen x is people who are low 30’s, ages say 31-34, they’re going to act more like millennials. It’s pretty close. But once you get into high 30’s then it’s a little different. And it also depends on their position within the company. We found that say, with Monster.com we found that gen x is the most stressed out generation, and all the generations are looking for different things over millennials. They’re looking for more job security, they’re looking for, you know, they want to go into the office, they want to stay at one company for longer. Millennials leave the first company two years, boomers leave in seven years. So it’s a big difference. And the technology they use plays a huge role in this. Millennials want to use social networks and text messaging and older generations, especially gen x and definitely big boomers want in person communication and they want phone calls.

Jason Hartman: So, how should a manager or an employer deal with some of these things? Should they let them be? I mean, texting for example, I mean, it’s just funny the way people use texts, especially so improperly in business. Sometimes I get texts, it’s just a little pet peeve, that are asking about incredibly complex issues. This is just not the right venue is what I keep thinking for this communication medium. To me text is more something like, oh yeah I’ll be there in ten minutes, if you’re meeting someone. It’s a quick message type thing. But I remember a millennial, I have a charitable foundation, and I remember a millennial friend of mine sent me a text once asking me to explain how he opens a foundation. What should I do? Talk about entity formation first, in my 144 characters? And then go from there, you know, it’s just funny, but talk about what should managers do with this type of thing?

Dan Schawbel: The number one thing is to set proper expectations. Millennials leave because they feel a lack of opportunity, they can’t see a path up, so they move out. And so managers need to say “This is everything you need to do. And the skills you need to develop, and the people you need to meet and the types of projects you need to be on if you want to get to the next level.”

No one sets expectations, and a lot of companies don’t even give annual performance reviews at all, or no feedback. And that’s so important. If you’re not setting these expectations, then they’re clueless and they don’t want it. They don’t know what’s possible in that company. They’re going to find a better opportunity. So, set expectations, make it all about the work and nothing else, tell them, get this job done, go above and beyond, Really deliver hard results, you can work from home you can do anything you want, as long as the work is at the best it can be. And that’s all this really needs to come down to anyways. The fact that there’s offices and all this, it just doesn’t make sense in this world. You know, why is there a 9-5 work day when business occurs 24-7?

Jason Hartman: Well, you know, these are all hangovers from the old industrial era.

Dan Schawbel: That’s the problem. We need to change. We’re at a point in time when, you know, I almost want to start a petition and have it signed by everyone. Because I think we’re at a point in time where I think companies have to finally adjust. And they’re really not going to have a choice, I mean, there was an article in the Wall Street Journal, and it said how companies were bowing to gen y demands. And I mean, it’s just going to happen more and more. You know next year, millenials will account for 36% of the US workplace, and that number’s just going to keep growing. And it’s going to push companies to have to make these type of big decisions that they should have made years ago.

Jason Hartman: Well, what are some of the demands then? This sort of flexible workplace, using technology, what else?

Dan Schawbel: Internal hiring, making sure that people who work for the company get first dibs at those positions, the new open positions. That’s two. Number three is having the company stand for more than just making money. Making them pay attention more and invest more in their local community. And having a true mission behind them. Communicating that to the employees. You know, community service. Another one is entrepreneurship. Companies need to innovate. They need to create entrepreneurship programs, to allow ambitious and entrepreneurial minded employees to work on projects outside their job description, projects that could really amount to something big for the company, and substantial. That’s another one. I mean, there’s so many different things. And so, having more continuous feedback instead of having annual performance reviews and it was actually 20% of the people surveyed we found don’t even have any performance review. And I’m finding that more and more with workers coming to me and saying why don’t we do this.

And so it’s just going to become more obvious and more important and as millennials take leadership positions. 15% are already managers. As this happens more and more, it’s going to make a positive impact in the workplace. You know, transparency is something they want. They want leaders to be open and honest, that’s one of the 4 qualities they look for in a leader. Open and honest, they want them to tell them exactly what’s going on in the cooperation, what they need to be aware of. And you know, a lot of millennials will talk about their salary at work, and that’s again, that’s something that was unheard of years ago. And it’s just going to happen more and more and companies need to adapt, not just millennials. It’s a two way street.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, sure it is, sure it is. So what are some of the companies that are going this well, and what specifically are they doing?

Dan Schawbel: Great question. American Express, for instance, they have blue work, which is a flexible work arrangement. If you go to their offices in New York City, instead of cubicles they have round tables and lounges where people get work done. Another company is Ernst & Young, and what they do is EY Connect Day, so annually they log tens of thousands of hours of community service where their employees help people out and do work for non-profits. So those are two examples, and there’s a lot of other ones like a lot of companies like Sodexo and NPR and they’re using social networks to connect and showcase their culture to millennials when they’re looking to recruit them. You know, having that type of open culture, so, there’s a lot of different examples. DreamWorks has entrepreneurship program where they teach all their employees how to pitch their ideas and fthen they line up executives and they might fund you in your idea’s good enough.

Jason Hartman: So, how about social media in the workplace? IBM was one of the first large companies to really kind of embrace the social media trend as I had been reading about them a few years back. You know, where they were encouraging the use of social media while other companies were concerned about secrets and legal issues and things like this and just general time wasting. How about the social media side of it? You alluded to it before, but..

Dan Schawbel: Well, we’re getting there. More and more companies are opening up their culture and embracing social media, and it’s happening. It is happening. And it’s about time to be honest. Cisco did study, they’ve done it two years in a row, and they found that students and young professionals will not work at your company if you block social medias at work. And this new thing where companies are asking for your user name and password to your facebook account in interviews, I mean these companies are so stupid, to be honest, it’s just so aggravating at this point. It’s just so uncalled for. That’s like stepping on someone else’s property. It’s just not something that they should be doing.

Jason Hartman: And there are laws against it in several states now, I mean, that is just the most overly intrusive thing.

Dan Schawbel: Well, and the other thing that they do is they try and take your social network accounts if you leave for another company. Which is ridiculous because again, the way things are working now, it’s less about a pdf resume and more about your online presence. And so if someone takes that away from you it’s going to be very hard to develop your career now in the future. So these companies just needs to stop because no one’s going to want to work for them. No one. Even if the company’s a good company and profitable, no one will want to work for them because millennials choose other things over making more money. Salary is not what drives them at all.

Jason Hartman: So, what does drive them if it’s not salary? I mean, it’s being part of something, being part of a meaningful work environment.

Dan Schawbel: Yeah, meaningful work like you said, it’s the most important thing. You know, that their interests and their passions and their talents are aligned to a noble cause. And that’s one of them, and then another thing they really care about is work place flexibility, like we were saying before. That is huge, and that should be huge for everyone too.

Jason Hartman: What about Apple? It seems kind of interesting that you didn’t mention Apple when you talked about companies that were doing it well. Apple has a pretty young staff, at least at the retail level. Any thoughts on the largest company in the world?

Dan Schawbel: Well, the good thing is that the millennial consumer and employee are one in the same and so a lot of millennials want to work for Apple because they love the products. You know, they use the products, they use it as fashion, they use it as part of their daily life. And so, they’ll say good things about Apple and that’s going to benefit Apple, plus they’ll want to work for Apple and that benefits Apple as well.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, good. Well, comparatively, are millennials inexpensive to hire and train or are they more expensive to hire and train?

Dan Schawbel: They’re the cheapest. Most of them are the cheapest because they’re on the entry level positions, you know, it costs between 15,000 and 25,000 to replace or to hire each millennial. So, if you’re trying to do that with a manager and executive, it’s going to be a lot more. An executive could be $100,000 to replace an executive. Or more. And it takes more time. But the thing is, as millennials rise in the corporation, they’re going to have those spots and they still have that mentality looking for the best, they want the best possible position. So if companies can’t provide that to them, they’re going to lose them. It’s a huge issue.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, well, you mentioned the social media profiles and so forth and employers being overly intrusive there, but tell us more about the personal branding angle, especially as it applies to the millennials.

Dan Schawbel: Yeah, I mean, what you do online, who you connect with, how many followers you have, who’s tweeting you, all of that ends up being your reputation online. And that reputation can transcend to the workplace. If you put up the wrong message, you might be isolated from your coworkers through office gossip. So, people need to understand that who you are online is a reflection of who you are offline.

Jason Hartman: Yep, most certainly true. Most certainly true. Well give out your website, if you would, Dan, and tell people where they can get the book. Of course it’s on Amazon.

Dan Schawbel: DanSchawbel.com.

Jason Hartman: And anything else you’d like us to know in closing?

Dan Schawbel: Yeah, I think that people need to be accountable for their own careers, take charge of their lives, and not rely on anyone or anything. Opportunities are just not going to come to you. And if you continue to wait for them, you know, they’re going to pass you by.

Jason Hartman: One final question for you actually, there’s this very pervasive ideal nowadays, and I think it’s a great thing, but it’s certainly more common than ever I’d say, is that millennials, they all want to start their own thing, they all want to be entrepreneurs, they looked at all of these examples we have in our culture today and it seems like they’ve all got an idea for an iPhone app. Are they just sort of taking a job to get a paycheck and pass time in wanting to do their own thing?

Dan Schawbel: Well, yeah, no, you’re absolutely right.

Jason Hartman: What I’m really getting to here, Dan, is the turn over issue.

Dan Schawbel: They’re all about side gigs, you know, if they don’t like their job, they’ll do what they enjoy outside of work in hopes that it becomes their full time job.

Jason Hartman: So certainly they’re about side gigs. But how should an employer feel about that? It always seems like they’re always looking to start their own thing, they’re always working on their own thing on the side.

Dan Schawbel: I mean, they should be respectful, as long as it doesn’t affect their performance at work, I mean that’s what I did when I was working for EMC, outside of work I was doing a million projects. As long as it’s not going to affect my performance at work then it’s none of their business.

Jason Hartman: Good stuff. Well, Dan Schawbel, thank you for joining us today and congratulations on the book. And at your website there’s a free report it looks like, ten ways to promote yourself at work, right?

Dan Schawbel: There is, yeah, it’s very informative and I think it’ll really help a lot of people.

Jason Hartman: Good stuff. Well, thanks for joining us today.

Dan Schawbel: Thank you. Take Care.

Narrator: This show is produced by The Hartman Media Company, all rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.HartmanMedia.com or email [email protected] Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own and the host is acting on behalf of Platinum Properties Investor Network, Inc. exclusively. 

Transcribed by Ralph

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