Tom Asacker is the author of five critically acclaimed books: The Business of Belief, Opportunity Screams, A Little Less Conversation and A Clear Eye for Branding, groundbreaking books that redefine business for the new, customer-controlled economy, and Sandbox Wisdom, a heartwarming story about a CEO’s search for meaning and success in the world of business and work.

A popular speaker, Tom lectures to corporations, associations, and universities around the world, and works confidentially with executives and management teams at a number of world-class companies. Prior to his role as a writer, professional speaker and corporate catalyst, Tom was an agitator in management posts at GE and throughout his entrepreneurial endeavors as founder of an internet startup; owner of an electronics manufacturing firm; and co-founder and CEO of a medical device company.

He is a recipient of the George Land Innovator of the Year Award; he holds medical patents and product design awards; and he is recognized by Inc. Magazine, MIT, and YEO as a past member of their “Birthing of Giants” entrepreneurial executive leadership program. Tom holds a degree in Economics and Business Management, and lives in the great Northeast. Visit tomasacker.com to learn more.

Narrator: Speakers, publishers, consultants, coaches, and info marketers unite. The speaking of wealth show is your road map to success and significance. Learn the latest tools, technologies and tactics to get more bookings, sell more products and attract more clients. If you’re looking to increase your direct response sales, create a big time personal brand, and become the go to guru, the speaking of wealth show is for you. Here is your host, Jason Hartman.

Jason Hartman: Welcome to today’s show. This is Jason Hartman, your host, and as you may or may not know every tenth show we kind of do a special tradition here that originated with my Creating Wealth Show where we do a topic that is sort of off topic on purpose. Something to do with life and just more successful living, and that’s exactly what we’re going to do today with our special guest. Again, tenth show is off topic and it is very much intentional just for personal enrichment and I hope you enjoy today’s show. We will be back with our guest in just a moment.

Start of Interview with Tom Asacker

Jason Hartman: It’s my pleasure to welcome Tom Asacker to the show. He’s written several books, the latest of which is called The Business of belief, How the World’s Best Marketers, Designers, Salespeople, Coaches, Fundraisers, Educators, Entrepreneurs and Other Leaders Get Us To Believe. He’s also the author of a book quite a while back entitled Sandbox Wisdom. You may have some across that one before and it’s a pleasure to have him on the show today. Tom welcome, how are you?

Tom Asacker: I’m doing well, thank you Jason for having me.

Jason Hartman: Good. I always like to give our listeners a sense of geography. Where are you located?

Tom Asacker: I’m about an hour north of Boston in beautiful Exeter, New Hampshire.

Jason Hartman: Fantastic. Well it must be gorgeous with the leaves changing, right? I think it’s about 30% right now, the foliage, right?

Tom Asacker: Yeah, well it was cool this morning so the foliage must be coming rapidly now.

Jason Hartman: Good, good stuff. Well tell us a little bit about your latest book and it’s just releases a few months ago I guess and the reviews on Amazon are incredible. They are many and they are positive.

Tom Asacker: Yeah, totally unexpected, to tell you the truth. I got into this approach to writing this little book bases on experience I’d had with people, clients, business clients, and people who told me they understood and agreed with me on particular directions to take in life and when I bumped into these people months later they had done the opposite so it created this real puzzle in my mind that I had to figure out, which was if people don’t take action based on their understanding of something, then why do they take action? And I did a deep dive into human motivation to try to find out what that concept is called, and the only thing I could find was this concept called belief. So, that in essence is the answer to the puzzle. People do what they do because they believe that that’s the right thing for them in that moment.

Jason Hartman: That’s really interesting, so they don’t do what they understand. Is that what you said? It was an interesting statement you made about 6 sentences ago maybe. They don’t do what they understand, they do what they believe. They don’t act in a way that is logical? What do you mean by that?

Tom Asacker: Well, That’s one of the things, the mistakes that we make, is that we compare the human brain to a computer and we imagine that people make decisions based on a set of programs or logic and it’s not true. Now, it’s also not true that people are “irrational” because rationality as a human being is based on my personal desires. So if I do something, to you it may look irrational but to me it may be perfectly rational. So, most people would say, so what you’re saying, Tom, is that people are irrational? And I’m not saying that, what I’m saying is people make their decisions based on this complex mixture in their own mind based on all kinds of things – you know, what their personal narrative is, and whether or not this decision is enhancing that narrative, how much of a hurry they’re in and whether or not it even makes sense to contemplate the decision, what type of mood they’re in and whether or not the decision is going to make the mood better or worse. So there are all kinds of things that go into decision making and what frustrates people who are trying to get other people to make decisions that are beneficial to their work and their businesses is they don’t understand how this works. So they’ll end up getting frustrated and saying that people are irrational.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, so, that’s interesting. People making decisions based on their own narrative and you didn’t mention mood, but I guess that’s part of the narrative at that particular time. So the real challenge is then, when I saw the title of your book, without knowing anything about it I thought two things. Is this a religious book, is it a Christian book, or is it about a company, great companies like Apple computer, for example, or Harley Davidson, where they have these like, this cult following? So the question is, how do we as leaders, what do we do? Do we help people change the narrative? Or get them to see that this is in what we want to motivate them to do in keeping with their personal narrative or what is the translation? How do we make that leap?

Tom Asacker: Right. That is a great question and I was worried a bit myself about using the word belief on the cover because again, people do conjure up a religious overtone to the book based on that word and I’m not really sure why, and I think it’s because we don’t really understand the concept of belief well enough. See every decision we make in life is made based on belief. It’s not based on a total information package, for example. If we’re walking, taking a hike on a trail in the woods and we see a foot bridge, we have absolutely no idea if that foot bridge is going to hold us or not. No engineer has given us some results of tests that they’ve done. We look at the bridge and we form a belief based on past experiences with similar looking bridges. Well, every decision that we make in life is like that. The human brain goes into memory, it finds similar things that match what we’re perceiving in our environment and then we make predictions based on those memories. So that is belief. It’s not this deeply held, dogmatic type of response to something; it is just the way the brain works. And so to your point, if that’s true, what do leaders do that want people to believe? And again, I’d list marketers as leaders, people who design things are trying to get people to use these new products or services, sales people are trying to move people to decide something and make a decision that’s favorable to them and their work.

So, how do they do that? They understand that people are motivated by their desires, they feed those hungers and desires, not just with information, information is a good way of backing it up but they do it with esthetics, they do it with stories, storytelling that enhances people’s own narratives. So you need to understand what people are currently experiencing and feeling, what their desires are, and then you have to help move them to a place in the future where those desires become realized. I mean, isn’t that what financial planning is all about? So, I mean that’s a simple analogy but that’s true of everything. Everything that we do.

Jason Hartman: Sure, yeah and you know, you mentioned storytelling and there’s a lot of talk throughout the ages of the power of storytelling. And you know, I guess one of the reasons that story telling is such a powerful form of communication, is that it does, it’s kind of like in the old fashioned sales, the feel, felt, found clothes, you know? You may have heard of that. And that’s really what a story is, you know, it’s like Joseph Campbell, the hero’s journey concept is well, you know, this person went out and they weren’t sure of the situation and then they dove in and they experienced trouble but they finally came out the other end victorious. That’s really what a story does, it maybe relates to the narrative, right?

Tom Asacker: Well, it moves our mind.

Jason Hartman: It moves the narrative too.

Tom Asacker: Because we don’t think in data and that’s the problem with people feeding us information via data and charts. We don’t think that way. We think by piecing together information to create a story, to create a metaphor or a narrative or something. So when I talk about story I don’t mean necessarily that someone should say, once upon a time this happened to me. Not necessarily. It may just be giving people little cues so that when they look at it, they make a story.

I’ll give you a perfect example. I just got back from Vegas and I was telling them a little story out there about how when I checked into my hotel room there was a triangle folded into the toilet paper in the bathroom. And what that triangle does is it makes you conjure a story of cleanliness. It tells you to do that. So you do, your mind just goes off and tells you, oh somebody must have cleaned the bathroom and made the beds, and in fact what they may have done was just folded a triangle in the toilet paper. Or Apple’s little boxes that you open up and it looks like a jewelry box. That tells you a story about the quality of care that the company put into the product itself.

Jason Hartman: I don’t know where this quote came from, but I have often driven my employees crazy with it, and from just a guess and memory, maybe a mixture of the two, I’m guessing some airline executive in the 70’s probably said it, but it goes like this, and it relates to what you’re saying because I was always a stickler for having our office very clean and nice and I would always say to the staff “Coffee stains on the flip down trays mean we don’t maintain the jets properly.”

Tom Asacker: Oh, absolutely.

Jason Hartman: That’s you’re triangle story on the toilet paper, you know? It’s the same thing. Okay so what our mind does is it takes a sample, that foot bridge concept of we don’t know if the bridge will hold up but we have these other examples of them holding up previously because probably if we’re about to cross that bridge, we’re not going to make it across, we’re not going to be alive to know, right, to do the next bridge. So, the mind takes a small thing and it expands on it, right?

Tom Asacker: Exactly. Yes, it connects; it finds dots in the mind. Look at the mind as a big connect the dots puzzle. So your brain sees something, and it creates a dot in the mind and it looks in the mind and sees other dots and then it will connect those dots, it will string them together, and it’ll create a picture and that picture is what it uses to make a prediction. Now, I can tell you, just because it makes a picture doesn’t mean that that picture is accurate. But it’s just what the brain does. For example, let’s say that you buy a bracelet to play golf and you want it to help you swing because you think that the ions in the bracelet help your golf swing, so you wear the bracelet. All the sudden, you’re hitting the ball straighter. So now you’ve made a cause and effect relationship in your mind between the ions in the bracelet and your golf swing when in fact that band could have done nothing more than made your mind slow down and consciously think about your swing, which improved your swing. So that’s the nature of the mind. It will create a story, whether or not the story makes any sense at all. And that’s why we have superstitions and everything we have in the world.

Jason Hartman: Right, right. Very interesting. So, can you give us any examples, Tom, of how this is used in the business environment? I mean, we’ve alluded to a few, but anymore examples like that of how someone who’s trying to get customers or staff motivated towards a certain vision can use the business of belief?

Tom Asacker: Well, everyone out there that has customers has achieved belief with those customers and typically it goes through certain steps, which by the way are opposite than the steps that business people and other leaders take. So the steps are really simple.
The first step is perception. We are visual creatures. Our eyes and mind and senses are turned on by what we see, by esthetics. By sensory pleasure and sensory stimulation as well. The next, very next thing that happens is that our feeling mind gets either turned on or turned off by this sensory perception. To your point, we see dirty trays and seat pockets; we think they didn’t do a good job maintaining the airplane. There’s nothing logical about that connection between dirty seat pockets and airplane maintenance.

Jason Hartman: Well, I mean, really?

Tom Asacker: No, there’s not, because the people who tighten up the nuts underneath the airplane, they’re not the same people that clean the seat pockets but we make that connection.

Jason Hartman: Yeah but the people that manage both of those crews are the same.

Tom Asacker: Well, I understand what you’re saying, I do. But that in essence is my point. That we perceive something and then we have this feeling, and then we make assumptions based on that feeling and now here’s the third thing that happens that people miss, we immediately start looking for and filtering information to justify the feelings that we have. We will start looking for evidence to rationalize those feelings. So if you want to lead someone, you start with their senses, you appeal to their feeling mind, then you give them the backup information so that they can rationalize what that feeling mind wants to do. And then when they take the action, when they walk across the bridge and it doesn’t collapse, they have now formed a belief. And once that belief is formed, it’s very powerful because we don’t have a lot of time during the day to reevaluate every belief that we have. We can’t walk through a supermarket with 50,000 different brands and flip around and look at the label of each one of these to see which 30 brands we’re going to purchase when we get there.

Jason Hartman: We’ll much less go to the factory and make sure that the food is properly prepared and cleaned and the stuff that goes into the can that you buy.

Tom Asacker: Isn’t that a great point? In mean think about it. When we buy something, and we see the color and the label and all of that, logos, we make an assumption of what’s inside that thing. We have no idea really what’s in there, but we make an assumption based on past experiences in the market place.

Jason Hartman: In a highly specialized economy, and the more specialized any economy becomes and the more specialized civilization becomes, there’s a lot more belief and trust that is involved, right? I mean think about it. If we were living in caves, we would maybe only depend on our own actions and the actions of a few other people like one person’s going to be responsible for starting and maintaining the fire, Another person, another couple of people are going to go hunt, and another is going to prepare the food, and another is going to take care of the baby. But nowadays, we’ve got it, I mean, the amount of trust or belief, and distinguish between those two words if you would, if you’d like to, is incredible. I mean we’ve got to trust huge infrastructures that rely on thousands and thousands of moving part every single day of our life, right?

Tom Asacker: Yeah, you hit the nail right on the head. If you think about the number of new products and services, new brands that are being released yearly. We have learned over time that it is impossible for us to evaluate all of these products and services. So, we basically run on our instincts. And that’s true with everything. And we can’t really think too deeply about all of that because we’d be paralyzed. We don’t have the cognitive ability to do that. So to your point, we simply trust or we, as I like to say, believe. Because belief comes typically before trust. Belief comes first. So I believe based on past experiences with similar things. I trust because I made the choice and that choice has not let me down over time so now I’m building actual trust.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, makes sense. Makes a lot of sense.

Tom Asacker: Yeah, but that’s why you’re seeing frankly an outpouring of new products. Because we live in a world where we’re free to choose what we believe and we have this desire for stimulation and self-expression. So before you know it, we’re buying dish washing liquid because it’s in an esthetically pleasing looking plastic bottle that better reflects who we are.

Jason Hartman: So what’s your commentary on that though? Is that okay or not?

Tom Asacker: I think it’s kind of exciting, really, I mean if you think about it, the opportunities are limitless. Now what I don’t find okay is that this fragmentation is also occurring in our beliefs about, not just market place choices like soap, but also in things like governing. And I think that’s what causes a lot of issues because people are reluctant to compromise. They look at their beliefs and they say, No no no, I want my beliefs to be the ones that play out in whatever’s going on, so they resist compromise, they resist taking in information which conflicts with their views and their feelings, so there is an issue with that. The fact that we can self-select information now as opposed to everyone getting the same stuff through mass media. There’s pluses and minuses.

Jason Hartman: Right, right. The media fragmentation concept has really divided people a lot. Whereas in the 50’s you had 3 magazines, Life, Look and Time. And you had 3 networks, NBC, ABC, CBS. Now you’ve got a zillion media outlets, and a zillion places to get your news on you know, alternate news, conspiracy theories, mainstream stuff, which may be the biggest conspiracy of them all, frankly, but, there’s my belief! And yeah, it really does divide people but the fact that all of these brands like you mentioned a few minutes ago, you see all of these brands coming out every year. I mean this is a huge testament to either one or two things, positive or negative, either the marketers have figured out the formula for the business of belief, or we have just become, and maybe justifiably so, so trusting or so believing that we can pick up a jar of peanut butter at the store, this kind one week, the other kind the next week and another kind the week after and none of them are going to kill us and we’re going to be pretty safe with our all of our choices. Or are we just thinking that okay, is it the government that’s making sure we’re okay? What does the consumer think?

Tom Asacker: I don’t think we think. And see, that’s part of how people negotiate their way through the market place. It’s understanding the fact that they’re not doing a lot of thinking about this. Or if they do, to your point, they’re saying, well, if I’m buying this from this supermarket, I’m sure they have quality control procedures because if something happens to me, I’ll sue the supermarket and they’ll go under so they’re smart enough to have control mechanisms in place to prevent all that. I don’t know how exactly we tease out this trust in things that we’ve never tried before, but I’m sure it’s not us saying that we believe the government is protecting us, because it’s impossible. It’s impossible for the government to test all these products.

Jason Hartman: Of course it is. And I mean, we know that the government is not necessarily on our side, I mean look at the NSA, right? The government is maybe our worst enemy, I don’t know, you ask George Orwell.

Tom Asacker: You know what it is? I don’t think, it’s interesting, I think we’re all in this thing together for ourselves, if you know what I mean by that. So we’re doing the right things so that we continue to grow. The organizations want to continue to grow, we can’t to continue to have choice and to grow, so I think by being selfish in our pursuits, for some crazy reason it all works.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, it really does all work and I mean, I’m sure we both agree that brands are really just a form of short hand. They’re a way for people to make decisions without research. Make decisions quickly. And when you look at a company like Apple, every time they release a new product, of course there are the critics out there. It’s interesting on the new iPhone that everybody has now, that apparently the finger prints are going to be shared with the NSA. Before they said they wouldn’t be, and I don’t know, it’s who the heck knows. So there are certainly some critics out there, but by and large they know they can release a new product and sell millions and millions of copies of that product because everybody just knows that that Apple brand is quality.

Tom Asacker: That’s right. That’s right, yeah and you know, as well they become part of the zeitgeist so there are a lot more critics so the expectations of Apple…

Jason Hartman: Are higher.

Tom Asacker: Right. And that’s what is affecting, for example, their stock price. It has nothing to do with their actual performance. It’s, wait a minute, we expected..

Jason Hartman: We wanted more. Yeah, well it’s like being, we’re all spoiled children too, you know?

Tom Asacker: Well that’s the problem with giving people more.

Jason Hartman: Those last two meetings, I tell you, I was unimpressed. And I kept asking, have they lost it, you know, since Steve is gone? I mean, it’s just unimpressive the last two announcements.

Tom Asacker: I understand.

Jason Hartman: But you know Tom, one more side of this, maybe we can just flip it around and then I’d like to, if we get time, to ask you about sand box wisdom or any of your other books for a moment. But what happens when things go wrong, and for some reason I’m thinking of the Susan G Komen Planned Parenthood debacle that happened, what was it? A year ago now, or less than a year? What happens when something goes wrong or you know, we talked about Apple, the antenna on the first major iPhone redesign, which I think was the 4 – they kind of swept that under the rug, nobody really knows, they said it was a software thing – what happens when things go wrong and a brand loses some of its luster? How do you fix it? Is it hard to lose? What are some of the things that we should be thinking about as business people?

Tom Asacker: Well, I think the most important part is to recognize that your present customers have to an extent, it depends what the product is, but to an extent, their identity is tied up in that brand in one way or another because they are choosing it, rather than choosing alternative products or services. So if something happens, this is not just, well we had a quality problem, right? I mean Harley Davidson almost went bankrupt because of their quality issues. But they turned that all around. And while they turned it around with great quality, they also worked to build the identity of the people who were passionate about Harley. And that gave those people even more ability to tell their story as Harley owners, about great quality that they had as well as the image that they had.

So can you turn things around? You can but you have to recognize that you have to turn around the business, the organization in a way that makes the people who stuck with you feel smart that they stuck with you. You have to enhance their identity. In other words, they don’t want to be appeased. Don’t send me the coupon, it’s not about that, let me in on what’s going on. I want to understand how things are being fixed because belief is about the future and in order to believe something about the future you have to have signs, specific evidence that you’re moving to this better place in the future. Appeasement doesn’t do that. They want the inside scoop. What is going on and can I believe that, show me evidence that we’re going to get there. And if you can do that, you can bring people back on board. Because they want to believe.

Jason Hartman: Right, right. It’s really as if the company has captured the ego of that consumer. And now they’re invested in it and you see this, probably in the political world it’s most pronounced, where you can put every piece of evidence in front of somebody and they will not listen. Because their ego is tied up in that brand, that politician.

Tom Asacker: Well, all of their decisions have been tied up in it and in addition, someone’s painting a picture of the future and the picture that they’re looking at makes them fit in the future. They can see themselves being successful in the future. They can see their opinions being well held by others in the future, but if they look at another picture of the future, they may not see themselves that way. So they latch on to that picture of the future that makes them feel best about themselves where they are today, and their potential for where they’re going to be. They have a hard time letting that go. That’s why the best thing a leader can do is paint a picture that will take everybody to the same place in the future collectively.

Jason Hartman: Any thoughts about when leaders talk about vision and the future and getting there and so forth. Are there any thoughts on that time frame? Like how far out can you make that vision or that goal? In other words where does a person lose interest? Like, oh this is just too far away to even worry about right now. What’s the distance there that you can get people to go? You probably have to do it in small increments right?

Tom Asacker: Yeah, I don’t know if it’s as much a factor of how far away that future is rather than how vividly can you paint that picture and how frequently you give evidence that you’re making progress towards that vision. That’s the key. Right? Because if you set the vision way out, and you don’t give them signs of progress? People become disenfranchised very quickly.

Jason Hartman: yeah, right. Absolutely. Very good point. Very interesting stuff. Hey, do you have any time to tell us about sand box wisdom or any of your other books?

Tom Asacker: Well I can tell you that sand box wisdom really started for me as a belief. And I’m going to tell you that beliefs for entrepreneurs, much of it is self-delusion And I don’t mean that in a bad way. But entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, they create this vision of where they’re going to be in the future and that desire to be that thing, to arrive at that place, to do whatever that thing is, that drives them to do that. It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy. But there’s nothing that says that they should be able to do that.
Most people I’ve seen that have done break through things, the experts said no that’s impossible, they can’t do that. It was this person’s belief. So that happened to me. I was sitting, unemployed after I had this vision collision with some partners in a business I was running. And it was probably mid-morning, I’m sitting in a bathrobe staring into a cup of coffee, and I glanced over, my daughter was eating cereal, and she had a spoon and she was looking at the spoon, at her image, and then she flipped it around, she raised her eyebrows and I looked at her and I said, Andrea, what are you doing with the spoon? And she said, Daddy, how come if I look at the spoon this way I’m right side up, but if I flip it over, I’m upside down? Now the only thing that could come to my mind at that time was the words convex and concave. But I had no idea how to explain to her how that happens. And in my mind at that time I said, you know what, this reminds me of business people. A lot of them know a lot of big words but they really don’t understand the lives of the people that they serve. So I’m going to write a business book about an executive who loses his way in business, he rediscovers it through the eyes of a little girl, and he turns everything around. His creativity, his passion, his innovation, and believe me I was completely deluded.

And I said I’m going to go publish this book. So I got a couple of rejection letters with this little book. I said to heck with it, I took what little money I had left, I printed 10,000 copies and I started mailing them to every CEO in the country. And next thing you know, the book takes off. And it was only because I had deluded myself into believing I could do this. I was really driven to see this thing through and that’s what made it happen and that’s why I’m here talking with you today.

Jason Hartman: I love that point you make about how entrepreneurs suffer from self-delusion. And you know, in a good way because it reminds me of that old saying, “Those who say it can’t be done should never interrupt the people actually doing it”. That’s how all greatness was achieved and you know Tom, it’s really a question of who has got the stronger will, you know? Is it the person who believes in this self-delusional future, whether it be getting to the moon or inventing a new smartphone or whatever the “impossible” thing is or is it the naysayers? The people who say it can’t be done. Who’s got the stronger belief? It’s just the war of belief systems right?

Tom Asacker: No, you’re absolutely right. I mean there are two sides to what I call the bridge of belief in the book. One side is desire. So there’s something over there that you want, that you want to achieve, to accomplish, a statement that you want to make. The other side of the bridge it comfort. You don’t want all this change in your life, you don’t want to risk what you have, and you don’t want to disrupt the status quo that makes you comfortable, that you’ve got figured out. You see this tension in organizations everywhere. Why don’t companies that pioneered products, why don’t they take us into the future? Why is it always some other entrepreneur that had nothing to do with that segment of the market? Because those companies were comfortable and they didn’t want to lose that comfort.

Jason Hartman: Well, the most dangerous moment comes with victory, right? That’s when everybody gets complacent.

Tom Asacker: Hey listen, Jerry Seinfeld, I heard him on the Howard Stern show. He said that success is the enemy of comedy. You get comfortable and you don’t want to go out and try new routines.

Jason Hartman: Right, right, got to be challenged. I wonder if it’s maybe a healthy idea for entrepreneurs to almost put themselves in situations where they’ll almost intentionally confront naysayers so that they can sharpen and strengthen their belief system and say look this guy says it can’t be done, dammit I’m going to do it just to prove him wrong. I mean you know? We’ve all felt that way before, right?

Tom Asacker: Yeah, well usually they have such a burning desire and vision of whatever it is that they’re not listening to anyone anyway. You know, I can remember when I owned this medical device company. People were telling me that what we were doing was impossible to do. I had a patent examiner at the US patent and trade mark office, told me on the telephone, what you have submitted is impossible. But I had a patient using it. I had to fly to D.C. and bring this thing with me to have this person actually see that it wasn’t impossible.

Jason Hartman: And did you explain to the examiner this is why you have a dumb government job in a cubicle and this is why…

Tom Asacker: No, no. So that’s one of those things about belief. You see, I wanted her to believe, so I had to figure out how to understand what her feelings were and make her feel good about herself. Otherwise I never would have got the patent.

Jason Hartman: Hey, listen, I couldn’t agree more.

Tom Asacker: But was I thinking that, Jason? Oh absolutely I was thinking it.

Jason Hartman: That’s funny. Good stuff. Well Tom, give out your website and tell people where they can find your books and find out more about you.

Tom Asacker: Well the best place to go is just go to, TheBusinessOfBelief.com. And that will land you right on the page with information about the book, with a link to Amazon, but it will also have links to my other books, to my blog and all that stuff. Or a contact page if anyone wants to just reach out and contact me for any reason.

Jason Hartman: Fantastic. Well Tom, thank you so much for joining us today and the book is entitled The Business of Belief, and of course we also talked about Sandbox Wisdom. Keep up the good work; I hope you’re already thinking of your next book because we want to hear more about it. Whatever it’s going to be.

Tom Asacker: Well Jason, thank you. This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate it.

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Female: If you want to be able to sit back and collect checks every month, just like a banker, Jason’s creating wealth encyclopedia series is for you.

Narrator: This show is produced by The Hartman Media Company, all rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights, and media interviews, please visit www.HartmanMedia.com or email [email protected] Nothing on this show should be considered personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own, and the host is acting on behalf of Platinum Properties Investor network, Inc. exclusively. (Image: Flickr | dizznbonn)

Transcribed by Ralph

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