Jason Hartman begins the show with investment counselor Adam to discuss some listener questions answering listener questions about capital gains taxes, 1031 exchanges, and diversification across different markets. Jason answers whether you should by one home or multiple homes in a market before moving to the next. Adam and Jason end the show with an article on Warren Buffett’s investing principle and how it applies to real estate investing.
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 0:52
Welcome listeners from around the world. This is episode number 1118 1118. And this is just Hartman, thank you so much for joining me today. always appreciate having you on the show as we are going to five days a week, five days a week. Yes. You have asked for it. And now we are delivering we were a three day week Show. Hey, back in the old days, we were maybe once a week if we were lucky. And if you guys were lucky. Sometimes we didn’t produce an episode for two or three weeks. It was terrible. But for many years, we’ve been producing three days a week, every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And now we are going to five days a week because we have so many people asking for it and so many people asking questions that we would like to answer on the show and we’ve been behind on those. So we’re going to get through that backlog. And you can ask your questions or leave your comments or insights or anything you want. At Jason Hartman calm slash ask Jason hartman.com slash ask for any listener feedback or questions. And Adam welcome How you doing today?
I am doing really well how are you today?
Jason Hartman 2:09
Good to have you back on the show. It is a rainy gray day in beautiful Florida here on the Treasure Coast you know, I didn’t know they called where I lived the Treasure Coast until I went to place an ad on Craigslist and I guess this is referred to as the Treasure Coast here in Florida. So hey, I’m excited about living in this place. You’re on the Treasure Coast and I’m in the live music capital of the world so we got that all over the place. That would be Austin Texas. Hey keep Austin weird right?
All the new money’s keeping it weird. That’s right.
Jason Hartman 2:43
Oh, well, I don’t know I think Austin’s getting a lot less weird. Oh it is to be definitely it’s getting pretty. You could argue boring. It’s becoming a too much of a tech place you know it’s not so weird anymore. I mean, weird, weird referred to the hippies and all that all that crazy. So it’s
one of those things when you get money coming in from tech companies and people moving from, you know, higher tech states that come in, you know, eventually your property values go up. And the weird companies who refuse to conform, can’t make enough money to stay there. And so a lot of them have gone out of business or moved farther out of town.
Jason Hartman 3:18
Yeah. And it’s not just the weird companies. It’s the weird people. And when we say weird, we are saying that with affection, you know, the hipsters and all that kind of stuff. counterculture, the counterculture, exactly the counter establishment. Okay, Adam. So we want to split start with some listener questions. All right. First up, we have Gerard patrol, and he wants to know if it is possible, if there’s any way in the world, he can sell a property without doing a 1031 exchange, and avoid paying capital gains tax. Not really, no, you can’t. Gerard you gotta you gotta have a tax bill. If you sell your properties without a 1031 tax deferred exchange. That’s just the reality of it. We have Well, I’ve actually got some coming up more on this more on the opportunity, the overrated opportunity zones. That is one way to potentially do it. If you’ll wait 10 years, but again, as you know, I think the opportunity zone thing is largely hype. I don’t think the tax benefit is that good a deal. I think it’s totally overrated. It’s being used as a way for people to just be greedy, and promote real estate in blighted areas and look at I can be wrong about this, but I’ve been researching it like crazy and I do not want to be the fat guy to jump on the latest fat all the time. years ago, when we did the go zone, and we recommended that that really was an incredible tax opportunity to save on taxes. But the opportunity zones, it doesn’t even come close to that the tax benefit isn’t that big a deal. The areas in which you’re forced to invest aren’t that attractive for the most part. So that’s kind of overrated. So Gerard, I went from your question on 1031 exchange and capital gains tax to the opportunities own because that is the one way to skirt that issue a little bit, but it’s got a zillion conditions locked onto it. So I don’t think it’s a very good deal. But the short answer to your question when you asked it before this opportunities, own stuff was all over the news? No, you gotta pay your capital gains. I mean, you know, look at there are a couple things that will nip around the edges, you can do what I believe is called an installment sale trust, okay. And basically, that comes down to this. If you sell a property that is highly appreciated, and has capital gains tied up in a where you’re, you’re going to have to pay that tax, you could do an installment sale, and that means you carry paper for the buyer. And if you carry paper for the buyer, it essentially means that you’re not selling The property all at once I mean, you are selling it but you’re not receiving all of the proceeds at once you’re receiving the proceeds over time in the form of a note. And you would pay taxes as you receive proceeds. That’s the way the installment sale rules go. By the way, always make the appropriate disclaimer. I am not a tax expert or a legal expert. Check out anything I say any of the concepts we talked about on the show with the appropriate professional, but you would pay as you go, so you’re still paying it but you pay overtime, you pay the tax over time. Now what some people are out there promoting is this installment sale trust. So you could sell the property and then give the proceeds to the trust. Okay, now this is more complicated. So be sure you get some good tax advice on this, okay. But the concept is like that, you know, you put the property in the trust, then you sell the property and then the trust receives the proceeds. And those out a small portion of that proceeds to you in little payments over time. So you know, the concept here is that you don’t pay the tax until you receive them just like on the installment sale. The only distinction is you’re using the trust, like a third party, almost like a natural person to dole out payments to slowly but you have some degree of control over that trust, okay. So you can do that you can donate the money to charity and use a vehicle like a car to a charitable remainder trust. That one’s kind of above my pay grade. I’ve certainly heard the presentations about it and researched it. But again, you know, it’s not my area. So there is your answer. Sorry, I don’t have better news for you. Basically, in most normal circumstances,
you sell the property, you’re going to play the game. It sounds like in that situation, there may be ways to avoid the capital gain in some ways, but then you have to ask yourself, I have to tie my money up for a long time to do it. So Is it worth the opportunity cost of losing all those years the potential return that I could get on the money in order to invest that way?
Jason Hartman 8:07
Right, exactly. Now, if you use the installment sale trust concept, I’m guessing you’d probably be able to invest that money within the trust. So the trust could be the vehicle that could, you know, ostensibly buy more real estate, right? But if you’re gonna buy more real estate, why not just do a 1031 exchange, you know, so, you know, what else do you want to really invest in anyway? income property works so well, I mean, you know, when under current law, when you die, the basis steps up. So if you’re going to pass it down, you know, I don’t know jurors age, but that’s a great opportunity. The opportunity is to die. Well, this is a very positive show here, isn’t it, folks? Yes, I’m sure you’ll be tuning in as often as you can. But, but dying is one way out of it. So there you go.
They don’t call it a death benefit for nothing.
Jason Hartman 8:59
That it is is a death benefit? Good? A good one, Adam. That’s good. Okay, what else we got? So
Gupta, Samir has a question about diversification and group this question is essentially, would you buy multiple properties in one area and then move to the next market? Or would you buy one property per market and then add, which diversification strategy do you think is the best? I have my thoughts. I’m curious what your thoughts are?
Jason Hartman 9:21
Yeah, Samir? That’s a good question. The answer is, it depends. Here’s what it depends on. It depends how many you’re buying, okay, how big a thing you’re doing. For example, if you’re buying six properties, we used to affectionately call this a six pack. Okay? If you’re buying six, I think it would probably be wise to buy either two or three in you know, to each and three markets or three each in two markets to start. And one of the reasons for this is that you will Learn more by diversifying and working with different property managers. But if you’re going to just buy two properties, for example, initially, I would just buy them both in the same market probably. Okay. But if you’re buying six, you know, I’d be in two markets and then build to the third market after that. And Adam, I have a feeling I know what your opinion is on this, but go ahead and share.
So mine is we started, we buy one at a time. And so my theory was we bought our first couple in the same market we bought all in Memphis, because I didn’t want to stretch myself with building two teams. At the same time, I wanted to start and build the team that I wanted to have in one city. And once I felt comfortable with that, then I can move on to the next market and build a team there, and then proceed that way.
Jason Hartman 10:52
Right now when you say build a team. I mean, you bought them through our network. Yes.
Right, but I wanted to make sure that I understood and kind of the the rates the homes were selling for, like the pricing of the homes, I wanted to be sure that I found a property manager or myself that I could trust that I felt comfortable with. And I didn’t want to have to be doing all of that, at one time across two or three different markets. I wanted to feel comfortable in one and then move to the next and then move to the next. Good point. Good point,
Jason Hartman 11:21
I would say that three markets all at once, especially if you are just starting to build your real estate portfolio. That’s a little much, but you do get a benefit of working with different people because then you can compare them. It’s kind of like when you’re young, you know, maybe you move around and you have a couple of different jobs, right? You learn a lot doing that it’s not wise to be inconsistent, and you know, move around too much. But the one benefit of it is you do learn some things right? And so the same is true of dealing with two different investors. Property teams in two different areas. Now the one thing you always have this consistent as you have us, you know, because it’s through our network, but you will be dealing with different local market specialist different property managers, and, you know, different taxing authorities. So, the property taxing authority will be different, the customs in each market might be different. And this is the fragmentation thing I talked about off and you know, when I say embrace the fragmentation, because by and large, that’s kept the big institutional investors out of our game. They’re here now more than they’ve ever been. But in terms of the overall market size, they’re still a drop in the bucket. You know, even when you talk about huge operations like you know, invitation homes, all these other I buyers out there and, you know, these hedge funds and private equity groups and all of this is still a relatively small In the overall scheme of investment, real estate, okay, so hope that makes sense. But But you know, try and diversify into two markets if you can. I think that’s the way to go. And, and not everybody buddy buys one at a time like you and Aaron did, Adam, some of them buy several properties at a time. So you know, but see if I could get into at least two markets at first. All right.
Well, those are the listener questions for today.
Jason Hartman 13:23
Okay, well, we got to in good. Let’s go to some current events. Well, Adam, first, you know, we would be remiss if we didn’t just talk before we get to a couple stories I know you want to cover about the government open up. It’s not a shutdown. It’s an open up. I guess Trump caved into those evil Democrats. He did for so for three more weeks. But you know, the thing I was hoping we would realize, look at i’m not in favor of a shutdown because it’s chaotic, right. It’s obviously an efficient, it costs more money to shut the government down. reopen it, then it does to just keep it open, right? It’s not a good thing. But philosophically, my hope isn’t or wasn’t is I should say that people might come to realize how we could do with a lot less government. If the government shut down long enough for the private sector to come in and fill the void in some of these various services and things that government does, I think it’d be a good thing. And you know, you heard me say, talk about that NPR story. Adam, I know you probably love NPR, where the woman was complaining about how the USDA was ensuring her mortgage and she couldn’t close on her house and she had to move back in with her parents for a couple of weeks because, you know, the government shut down, right. But what the heck is the USDA doing ensuring mortgages anyway, I mean, this is nuts. This causes massive disruption In the market for the government to be involved in all this crap, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, all of it just needs to go. But it’s probably not going to happen. So it’s definitely not
going anywhere. It’s a fantasy. I think you and I have different takes on the rationality of markets as well. So I don’t think I think the government needs to be involved in some extent to those things, because I don’t think that the market itself Well, first off, you and I both agree, there’s no such thing as a free market. All markets are controlled in some way. And I think that the government, there are some things that it probably shouldn’t be in like I agree the USDA probably shouldn’t be ensuring mortgages, but the mortgage industry, the government being there helps with the investing, I think, I think it helps having the government in there as well as your private lenders, because the government provides a baseline and so people know, hey, sure, we are competing against that. I mean, you look at Medicare. The medicare rates are what all of the insurance companies pay off of anyway.
Jason Hartman 16:01
Right government is a massive Medicare fraud. You know, and why are they paying off the medicare rates? I mean, what who says that’s the right rate? Shouldn’t the market just determine the rate over time? Shouldn’t everybody just figure out what to charge for everything? I mean, that’s that’s just negotiating, though you the government’s able to negotiate better rates because they’re a larger entity? Oh, that’s hilarious. You actually think the government negotiates better rates on anything,
I guarantee you, the lowest price you can find is your money is your Medicare price? Because the government has negotiated the price of it?
Jason Hartman 16:34
Oh, my God, Adam. Okay. We don’t have time for this argument. But let me tell you something. The government is always the willing loser in any transaction in any deal where there are multiple parties, the government is always the willing loser. Okay. The government massively overpaid for stuff all the time. You know, I have friends that own businesses, and they just can’t wait to Get a juicy government contract and suck off the teat of government, right? Because it’s just so lucrative, these companies with these government contracts, they just pillage and then it comes time for the budget. And like I have a friend that sells computers to the government, right. And every year, business just booms I think it’s in like September or something like that, because
I believe that’s the start of the new fiscal year.
Jason Hartman 17:29
Right? Because all these all these departments of the government have to use their whole budget. So they just buy a bunch of crap they don’t even need I mean, look at we could go on and on five days about I agree they’re not
always the best, but in healthcare they are they get the best rate and healthcare
Jason Hartman 17:45
better than how do you know you can compare to what
how do you because all of the insurance companies if they could negotiate better rates and make a better profit margin they would, but they all basically if you look at your bills, if you compare it everything is based off of medicare rates.
Jason Hartman 18:00
idea that you think the Medicare rate is the best rate is high. Don’t tell me then why wouldn’t Blue Cross Blue Shield or Aetna or any of those other ones work out a better rate with the companies then the Medicare rate? If they could? Maybe it’s because the provider of the health care just basically will ignore them. If they negotiate a better rate, maybe the government has put in a false floor. It was saying that basically, you know, now, they won’t take BlueCross as business they won’t take their customers if they don’t pay the Medicare rate, the maybe artificially high Medicare rate.
You know, what was not going down that conspiracy? rabbit hole?
Jason Hartman 18:37
Yeah. Oh, conspiracy. That’s my conspiracy. That’s just market forces. price
fixing with the government. What do you mean, you’re talking about the government basically colluding with these companies to keep their prices that way?
Jason Hartman 18:47
No, no, I didn’t say that at all. That’s not what I’m saying at all. What I’m saying is, if, okay, so look, you’ve got these different parties in the transaction. You’ve got the provider of the health care, right? The doctor’s office, right or the hospital, right? Then you’ve got Medicare that pays X amount for x procedure, right? Then you’ve got these private insurance companies that also want to get the best rate. And so they might be able to negotiate a better rate with the healthcare provider, the doctor or the hospital. But if they do, then those providers of health care may not take their business because why would they now that you’ve got Medicare there, and these millions of people using Medicare, they’ll just say, Well, why should we take blue Cross’s customers? We’re going to turn them down, because we can get more on the government priceless. That’s what I’m saying. I’m not saying there’s a conspiracy at all. I’m just saying there’s market forces, and the government creates a distortion in the market always, because they’re a big spender. They come in and throw money around and they just Stuart marketplaces, see, we don’t know what the real ratio be. If your scenario was true, then it would actually be opposite of the way it works now, because right now doctors aren’t taking Medicare, but do take private insurance, well, then the private insurance must be actually paying more, or maybe they’re not paying more, but they’re just less bureaucratic and easier to deal with. That’s probably the reason I mean, look at I’m not healthcare expert. I’m just saying I am a market expert, though. I definitely understand how marketplaces work and the dynamics of them. And I can tell you that in business many times, as Sarah likes to say, we’re going to have Sarah back on the show soon. She hasn’t been on in a while. She takes the old saying shoot yourself in the foot and she says don’t shoot yourself in the shoe. And you know, a lot of times in business, I’ve shot myself in the shoe, because I will go and be a really good negotiator. And then the vendor will just kind of fizzle out because they’re not really that motivated to provide whatever they were providing because Deal wasn’t that good for them, you know, they got people that are willing to pay more. And hey, more power to them. I’m a capitalist, I don’t care. But you know, these are the pressures of the marketplace and they’re good pressures, things work themselves out. It’s the invisible hand. as Adam Smith said in 98 and 1776,
I was actually listening to a podcast, but Adam Smith when I was working out the other day, I think I think I might have been the only one in the gym listening to one about that, but it was an obviously one.
Jason Hartman 21:27
Maybe Adam Smith, but you know, I listen to audiobooks and podcasts at the gym. So
yeah, very little. Do you want to talk about one of the greatest filmmakers of all time?
Jason Hartman 21:36
I do. That’s Warren Buffett. Right?
Yes, sir. Now, there was an article that came out recently that talks about Buffett came out and said, really successful people say no to almost everything. And we were looking at this and thinking that it applies a whole lot to real estate investing. And both gates and Buffett broke everything down. And they said if they were sitting around the table, and they could share the most important factor to their success and One word, what would it be? And the one word that both Bill Gates and Warren Buffett said was focus.
Jason Hartman 22:05
Yeah. Right. I agree. I agree. Look at a very popular book has been the one thing right. And you know, I think that books kind of overrated, honestly. I mean, it’s, it’s good. But, you know, it’s just not that complicated, right? This is a pretty simple thing. I think it’s very true. You know, as humans, we always have shiny object syndrome, as they call it, right? What is the hot investment of the day and this must be just terrible for people in the stock market world for stock investors because there’s always a new shiny deal many times a day, all you have to do is turn on CNBC and you’ll, you’ll be tempted constantly. Oh, yeah. But with real estate, it happens to you know, they’re still in that deal. And that Russian Olympian figure skater I can’t remember her name, but she had that great quote, she says, you know, this, the key Success has to follow without halt. One aim, right? You know, to just do one thing really, really well. And I think that is true. You know, it look at people in real estate investing. They have problems from time to time, they get discouraged. You know, things don’t work out, they have to evict a tenant, the tenant trash their house. Fine. That all happens, right? That’s part of your college degree in real estate investing. It’s just going to happen, right? But we all know everybody listening knows that income property is the most historically proven asset class in the world. There are mountains and mountains of evidence that it works. Now granted, someone listening individually may have had a struggle with something but over time, it works. Okay, we all know that we really do. So why not just follow that path and stick to that path, because it is the ultimate path. You know, there’s really only three things I invest in my own businesses, income properties, in financing income properties, those that’s it. You know, those three things, right. And my own business, my main own business happens to be centered around real estate investing. The Real Estate Investments themselves are definitely centered around real estate investing. And the financing for those real estate deals is also centered around real estate investing. But I’m diversified geographically. So I’m focused in the asset class, but diversify geographically. I’m not saying I’m great at this focus thing, but I do agree that it’s, it’s a great thing to do is to just get on that assembly line, and keep it going. And I’ll tell you, one thing happens in our business constantly Adam, and you know, you’ve probably seen this already. You know, for the few years you’ve been working with us, but people are always asking Asking, you know, hey, you know, what about triple net leases? You know, do you have any retail properties? What about this and that and the other thing? How about this? There’s this office building I want to buy, you know, can you help me with that? No, we can’t. You know, it’s maybe some of the listeners who are like my age. Remember this funny skit on Saturday Night Live, where they’re in the restaurant, and they only have one thing they go you know, guy says, I’ll have a hamburger and he says no hamburger cheeseburger. And it says all the hamburger and a coke, no hamburger cheeseburger, no Coke, Pepsi. And they just do this one thing over and over, right? And it’s really boring. And if you look at that, we see it in our world too. And in the hamburger concept, look at a company like In and Out Burger. Look at how how successful that company is probably the most successful while the most successful burger Fast Food burger place okay? For sure. And it’s not all over the country are certainly not over
the world might disagree with you on that one
Jason Hartman 26:07
well known and Adam you don’t notice. See I’m not defining success by sighs Sorry about that, okay, I’m just defining it by like best company to work for best food best prices when you go in there that people treat you well i mean look at I think Southwest is like the best airline, okay, but they’re not the biggest right? So so that’s just by definition of best Okay, so In and Out Burger, very simple small menu, right? You go to McDonald’s or you know any other fast food place and you’ve got these ridiculous menus like with all of these items, it’s it’s too complicated. And that must just weigh on the efficiency of the enterprise, you know, to have that kind of complexity in your menu. But the funny thing is both Bill Gates and Warren Buffett as we’re talking about that article Warren Buffett is obviously in a zillion businesses, right. And Bill Gates has a zillion products right or Microsoft does did one under the auspices of his leadership. So
I don’t know well, but he has five strategies that are put forward in this article. And strategy number one is killing busy work and not chasing the shiny stuff. And strategy number two is only work with people you could see yourself working with forever. Number three is keeping things simple for is focusing on a few high quality bets. As you know, I think everybody knows Buffett only invests in one to three things a year.
Jason Hartman 27:38
Yeah. And Buffett Buffett has one definite definable investing strategy. That’s number five focus on long
Jason Hartman 27:46
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But not only that, it’s that he has a real philosophy. That’s what I love about Buffett, even though I think he’s a hypocrite a lot of the times and you know, I don’t I don’t like Wall Street, but I do love you. Value Investing philosophy, I very much apply that to real estate. So yeah, that’s good. Good stuff. Adam.
That’s good. In terms of working with people you could see yourself working with forever that’s vetting your vendors. Yeah, to make sure you’re buying from people you trust because that way and the he does very little negotiating, from what I’ve read, whenever he purchases the company, he sees it. He knows the price that he wants, he trusts the people that he’s working with. He says, I’ll pay you this. And it’s kind of a yes or no thing. And I mean, that’s, that’s a good thing. We should all in our investments go in knowing what it’s worth and holding firm to it.
Jason Hartman 28:35
Yeah, absolutely. That is a very good point. And the idea that Buffett not negotiating very much is kind of interesting to me because he never worries too much about is it a good deal? You know, like did I buy it below market? What he looks for is the future. And you know, when we talk about market dynamics as we’re talking about health care and Adam Smith and all that kind of stuff, I think that’s really important. You know, pretty much every deal is a good deal in the rearview mirror. You know, you just buy it and wait a little bit, and the deal looks really good. Okay, when you let a little time pass, but at the time, it usually seems like you’re just paying full retail and sometimes even feel like you overpaid. And that may well be true. I mean, look at these big tech deals, right? I thought when Google bought YouTube, I thought they were they must be nuts. I thought they were out of their mind. But that turned out to be underpriced right in the rearview mirror. When Facebook bought Instagram, I thought they were crazy. A billion dollars for Instagram when it’s just got what 30 employees or something’s little company. How can that be worth a billion dollars? They must be smoking crack as the saying goes right? And apparently I was wrong. Okay, that was a great deal for them, you know, with WhatsApp, they paid $19 billion for WhatsApp. And apparently that was a great deal too. So these deals seem expensive sometimes. But when you really understand the value of a durable asset like income property, they’re all a bargain in the rearview mirror, you know, just gonna let a little time pass you know, and then it just pains me the dealmaker mentality that oh, you know, the guy wouldn’t give me a good enough deal or these houses are too overpriced and you know, then you wait three years and they’re saying shoulda coulda woulda I wish I would have bought everything I could have seen, you know, or I saw but
yeah, and it’s like you mentioned in a podcast not that long ago about leaving meat on the bone. I mean, you have to look at go into it, knowing you know what, I want a fair price for me, but I’m not trying to mess up the person who’s selling to me, right? I want them to make a living to I want them to be able to rehab more properties so that I can buy more from them. You know, so everybody needs to walk away happy.
Jason Hartman 31:06
Yeah. You know, you know, who really kind of showed me that he didn’t teach it to me. He showed me through his actions. And that was, he’s been on the show before. But my old friend, Jeff Myers, who, when I acquired him as a client back in, well, like 1989, he was, you know, one of my big first early clients, and I sold five of his properties for him in Irvine and Laguna Niguel, and those areas of Orange County, California, you know, Jeff did not haggle very much. He was the seller and he was just like, just get these properties out the door. I want to buy other properties. You know, he always left some meat on the bone for the next guy, you know, it’s like, he really didn’t waste a lot of time agonizing about things and, you know, I think that’s, I think that’s a good quality. I think you’re right, yeah, good point. Good point. Okay, Adam, we better wrap it up right?
I think so. I think we’ve rambled for a little while.
Jason Hartman 32:05
Okay, we sure have. Well, hey folks, I hope you found this episode valuable. We will be back tomorrow. Yes, five days a week now, folks five days a week. We’ll be back tomorrow with another episode. Until then, happy investing. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe. So you Do not miss any
episodes. We look forward to seeing you
Jason Hartman 33:03
on the next episode.