Jason Hartman chats with author Bob Bly to discuss internet marketing and business. Bly gives us insight into getting more traffic to your website. He shares tips on SEO and explains why much of your credibility comes from your website. He looks at affiliate marketing for more traffic then discusses copywriting. He discusses his success in online marketing and shares tips on how to improve your digital game from building websites to having great SEO.
Bob Bly 0:02
speakers, publishers, consultants, coaches and info marketers unite. The speaking of wealth show is your roadmap to success and significance. Learn the latest tools, technologies and tactics to get more bookings, sell more products and attract more clients. If you’re looking to increase your direct response sales, create a big time personal brand and become the go to guru. The speaking of wealth show is for you. here’s your host, Jason Hartman.
Jason Hartman 0:40
It’s my pleasure to welcome Bob Bly back to the show. He is a returning guest, and he is a legend in the industry of copywriting. And he has authored so many books that if I were to read all the titles of all of his works over 100 it would be the entire episode today so we won’t do that. But his latest work is entitled, The digital marketing handbook. And we’re going to talk about how to get traffic to your website, how to convert people once they’re at your website, and just have a more successful business. Bob, welcome back. How are you? Good. How have you been? Good, good. It’s good to have you on the show. And you are coming toys Finder. Yep. And you’re coming to us from New Jersey, right? Yes, I am. Excellent. Excellent. Well, your latest work now, is this work really a departure? I know it’s related Of course, from some of your other work because it seems like really copywriting has always been your thing. But now you’re me. Are you broadening a little bit is that what I’m what I’m doing
Bob Bly 1:44
is I say to people, I’m doing a Jason fields. First I started it started with copywriting. And then I went to content writing, and I went to public relations. And now in the multi channel world today, I did a book While back on email marketing, and now I’ve done this one, the digital marketing Handbook, which is about how to make your websites make money.
Jason Hartman 2:09
Mm hmm. Okay, good stuff. Good stuff. Well, let’s talk about that. Take us through maybe in chronological order how that customer journey goes. I mean, it all starts really with traffic, right?
Bob Bly 2:20
Yeah, to simplify it, there’s two major steps. Of course, there’s more, there’s two major steps. Number one, you have to know how to drive traffic to either your website or another of your pages on the website to a specific URL. And the book outlines at least a dozen methods to do that we can discuss some of them. There are probably in total 20 methods and there seem to be more invented every other week. So step one is you got to drive lots of traffic. Step two, is you have to convert that traffic either to an opt in to your list. Or to a sales lead for your service. Or what I do mainly is a purchase of your product online.
Jason Hartman 3:08
Good stuff. So let’s start at the beginning and that is bringing people to your website. You got to get people there before you can do anything, right?
Bob Bly 3:18
Jason Hartman 3:19
Okay, how do we drive traffic? You’ve got 12 broad methods, the outline, but what are some of your favorites?
Bob Bly 3:26
Well, I have my favorites. And they’re there. Some of them are unconventional. Well, one of them is conventional. My favorite for for other people in who sell products online, is affiliate marketing. And I think and you know what that is, basically, I find someone who has an E newsletter, or that goes out to an audience that is somewhat similar to mine. And I approached him and I say, look, if you would always offer one of our products to your list that you think is a good fit and drive the traffic to my sales page will give you a commission for that. And then also vice versa, I’ll drive traffic to their sales page for their products are recommended in my newsletter or in an email, and they’ll pay me a commission. So that’s affiliate marketing. And the reason that a it makes sales would be everyone from their site who logs in buys, your product is added to your OPT in lists. So it’s a great way to grow your list and your revenue. So that is that is one of my favorite methods.
Jason Hartman 4:42
Give us two more about
Bob Bly 4:44
Okay, some of them are very simple and basic. online advertising, in particular, Facebook advertising, and Google advertising Pay Per Click are very effective way driving traffic. They’re not free. You know, affiliate marketing, your affiliate gets a percentage of the of the sale, but you’re not paying anything for that no out of pocket expense. You have to buy advertising on Facebook and Google, and you have to know what you’re doing. And I recommend to anyone who’s wants to do that. It’s in my book, but it’s also for free on Facebook’s website and Google sweb. site, look up their rules for advertising, because they are somewhat restrictive. And I think both of them and you know, you have to know what they will accept and what they won’t before you submit your ad. And if you don’t make their standard, you know, they’re not going to charge you for an ad. They don’t run. But they’re going to say, you know, we’re not going to run this try something else.
Jason Hartman 5:51
So Google ads, or that was at Google and Facebook. You said, Yeah, Google Ads very good.
Bob Bly 5:57
Facebook is good advertising. The other online advertising, there are a few others. Bing is is good. It’s less expensive, you know, to test Pay Per Click ads, the banner ads, not my favorite. But undeniably they can work if you’re paying a reasonable price. And in addition to that, in E newsletters, ads and other people’s e newsletters can work, especially text ads. Yeah.
Jason Hartman 6:26
Okay. All right. So that’s traffic. What’s next when we get people to our website? I mean, there’s so much different philosophy on this. You know, I’m wondering, maybe it’s a this is more of a copywriting question. But what is the latest thinking Bob, about copywriting in terms of the general philosophy of it, the length of it, when you start it, I’m guessing and correct me if I’m wrong, that really that long form, sort of sales letter. sales page was the thing is that still the way it is with people’s short attention spans and so many distractions?
Bob Bly 7:08
Yes, but with a caveat, long copy work. When you are selling a product, either in print directly off the page, or online directly, you know that they can order online as a salesperson, you’re not sending them to a retail store, they go on your sales page, and if they like it, they click and they go to a shopping cart, and they give they pay with PayPal or their credit card and you make the sale for that long copy is consistently proven, in most cases, to output your short copy, especially for products that are either complex, or that have a big emotional element attached to it. For example, if you’re selling a a health product, let’s say you’re selling a dietary supplement, and it’s a pill for prostate. That’s an emotional issue. If you’re a guy, I’ve never had it. But if you’re a guy that has prostate, benign prostate hyperplasia, or prostate cancer, you’re having a lot of problems, you’re embarrassed by it, it hurts you, it interrupts your sleep, that’s very emotional. And that takes long copy to pull them in, and then convince them that your pill or supplement is better than the 40 others that they’re getting advertising for. And that takes a lot of copy. And then you need to make your offer state your guarantee, justify the price. So that’s why most of these pages are long copy. Conversely, if you’re doing let’s say b2b marketing, and you’ve done a white paper on electronic asset recovery, and you’re offering it to potential clients, it’s free. You don’t need long copy to give weigh something free online. So you would have a you drive traffic to a short landing page that has, you know, it explains the basic offer, as a few bullets of what to learn in it, and then a button they click to download it.
Jason Hartman 9:17
So the answer to the question is, it depends.
Bob Bly 9:20
It depends. But generally, the rule of thumb is, we use these determine mail order. Now, of course, this isn’t by mail. So we say direct response that sells products directly to consumers is often long copy and b2b copy that generates leads instead of sales. It can generally be shorter copy, that’s the rule of thumb.
Jason Hartman 9:43
Good stuff. And so do you go into the design of the web page like the look and feel of it? Do you want to address that or or the copy I
Bob Bly 9:53
mean, I have a I have a whole presentation I give on doing the websites and sales pages. I go, you know, in detail into it, we can do that. All of that now, because we don’t have a visual component here. But I’ll give you a couple of tips that I think will be helpful. The problem with sales pages, person clicks on your sales page. The first thing is you have a headline that makes a bold claim, and they don’t know who you are. So right away, they’re skeptical. So what we do to beat that we use an extra element on the web, on the sales page, above the headline, usually in smaller type, often in italics and quotation marks. That is what we call a credibility pre head. So mine on my websites for my products before the headline above the headline it says Bob Bly, author of 100 books, and the man McGraw Hill calls quote, America’s top copywriter unquote, now reveals dot dot dot And then it leads into the headline. So the the credibility is immediately established. That’s one tip. The other tip is a big mistake, especially for a longer copy sales page is you read it, and the marketer has put the click button by now, at the very end of the page, so you have to scroll down, scroll down, scroll down, that will kill response. What’s better is you have your Buy Now button multiple times throughout the page, also at the end, but also at early. And so you know, they can find it right away cuz some people will come to it, see what the product is. They don’t need to read your sales letter. They said, I gotta have this and if they have to search for the button to order. That’s not helping.
Jason Hartman 11:53
Right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Bob Bly 11:55
Okay, so is it a one page site You know, you used to see those a lot. And I think you were behind a lot of those in, you know, the earlier days of the internet, where it’s like this one page site. It’s broken up. It’s got pictures, testimonials, information. There’s, you know, maybe three or four by now buttons as you scroll down the page, or is it a site where you link around and go places or kind of a one page. Important thing is now, essentially, a landing page is one page. But the term today, one page site also has another meaning to many people. It takes traditional website that everything is on the homepage. But yes, this is these are the way you’re talking about. It’s one page, it’s usually it’s usually narrower than a full screen. It looks like a sales letter, and it reads linearly and It talks about only one topic, which is the product that you want to sell, and the problem that it cures or solves. And the important thing is, there is no navigation on that site, your only choice is to click to order or to leave the page. Okay, good.
Jason Hartman 13:20
So is that should this be someone’s, you know, or some companies only website or you strictly talking about this landing page is a separate site that one has for specific sales offers.
Bob Bly 13:36
The landing page is what we call a micro or mini site. And it is for specific sales offers. companies should also have what we call their home on the web, where you can find them. And that is a traditional website, and in mind, there’s a lot of stuff going on there. But among other things, there are links to all My sales pages for my individual products, but you need a central hub. Also, the central hub site, that’s the one you operate, you optimize for search engines. And it’s very difficult to optimize a sales page because Google rates them low. But Google if your site has a lot of content, your main site, you can get rated higher.
Jason Hartman 14:23
Good, good stuff. Okay. So for SEO, the main site and then for specific offers the microsite the micros Yeah, okay. Okay, good stuff. Um, what else do you want us to know?
Bob Bly 14:34
two things. Number one, we live in a multi channel marketing world today. And the some people will will say, I just use Facebook. I just use an online ad. I just use sales pages. But the most successful marketers have integrated multi channel programs or campaigns that can Buying multiple media, for example, we’re finding that one of the best ways to drive traffic to a sales page or a website is to send out an oversized postcard. It’s print. It’s not it’s not digital.
Jason Hartman 15:16
Good old fashioned direct mail.
Bob Bly 15:18
Yeah, and one thing that is also, for example, a lot of dietary supplements, I mentioned prostate are sold online. But smart marketers know that another medium that works well for supplement is half page newspaper ads. So a good marketer, or one who wants to Mac increase, maximize the revenue does not stick with one channel. They test different channels, and the ones that don’t work, they dropped by the wayside. And what works you do more?
Jason Hartman 15:54
Yeah, okay. Good old newspaper while I’m so surprised to hear that nowadays but okay. Yeah,
Bob Bly 16:02
people people are and you know what they’ll tell me like my kids will tell me that no one reads the newspapers it Really? Yeah, no one. Can Why do they make it?
Jason Hartman 16:10
Yeah, yeah. Well listen, my neighbor reads the newspaper. I see it out here every day on the sidewalk, you know, so I know somebody’s reading it. Yeah. Okay, good. Good stuff. All right. What else do you want us to know about the site? You talked about driving traffic?
Bob Bly 16:26
Very important point. Okay, good. If someone’s on your site, as they said they can either leave the site Or buy this buy the product. But if they don’t want to buy the product, at least when they leave the site, you want to capture their name and email address. And there are different ways to do that. But one is simply called the pop under and you’ve seen this, you’re not buying the product, you’re leaving the site and a window pops up that says wait, don’t leave yet without claiming your free gift and to get the free gift. You It’s content like a special report, but it can be something else. You have to put in your name and your address. Now, I’ve driven I’ve paid money to drive that traffic, some of that traffic is purchase product. Some of it won’t fill in that pop on there and I lost them. But there’s a large percentage that will fill in that form and give me their email address. So a I’m building a list but B, they were interested enough to come to a page on that topic. They now are entered into an autoresponder email series, three emails, five emails, seven emails, that upgrades them say hey, you know, go back on the sales page. You missed this, you missed that. Don’t you want to feel better? Don’t you want to be able to prostate Don’t you want to be able to pee like a Pyros? So they’re up sold, and typically, an autoresponder email series sent to people who opt in but didn’t buy will increase total conversion rates between 10 and 30%.
Jason Hartman 18:00
Okay, good, Bob, if we’ve gone over some of the website stuff and before we wrap it up today, I just love to give our listeners some insights into your truly legendary copywriting skills. You know, this is such an important art. It’s one that I never really learned. But I am fascinated by it because I tell you when I read copy, I mean, I just want to buy everything. You know, when you read good coffee, how do people do that? I mean, what is what are some of the just the sort of fundamental secrets of great copywriters?
Bob Bly 18:37
I could give you sort of special formulas that are not the fundamentals. But the but I’ll start with I’ll do a couple of fundamentals. One is people always say I got you know, a like an ad agencies, we got to get a product briefing by the study, the most important thing in your ad and your promotion is not the product. It’s the prospect The person you’re selling to, you should know at least as much about the prospect as you do about the product, and what do you want to know? You want to get inside their mind? You want to know what keeps them up at night? What do they want? What are they afraid of? What’s their biggest problem? My friend on Outman is a copywriter says, Ask for find out. And there’s a formula for doing this. What is the thing that keeps them up at night with worry? today could be COVID could be recession could be whipsaw volatility in the stock market. Could be other things depending on the person
Jason Hartman 19:41
okay. So you understand you get inside their head, you understand their perspective, their point of view, then what?
Bob Bly 19:48
Then you your copy starts with the prospect, not with the product, as is done in Madison Avenue. That does not work with direct response when you start With a prospect, you say things because you said you, you said yourself, you get into their head. So now you understand the conversation they’re having with themselves in their mind about the problem, the product solves or about the product. And you enter into that conversation. And your copy starts with that. I mean, one classic, was a sales letter selling a subscription to psychology today. And the beginning line was, do you close and lock the bathroom door, even when you’re the only one home? And there was another one for a supplement, an energy supplement that began Are you sick and tired of feeling sick and tired? You’re entering with what they’re thinking. And once you get them, you said the guy says where the girl the woman says, these guys understand me Then you say, but we’ve now got an answer. We’ve got a solution. And then you transition from the problem to the solution. And I’ll give you one other three, you asked me, Why are these sales letters so long? Because if someone’s a serious buyer, people say no one reads that copy. Well, people who are not buyers, non buyers, non prospects, yeah, they don’t read the copy. But people who are serious prospects and end up buying or want to buy something, they read it. And the reason is, the copy is wrong. The primary reason is you have to have a lot of proof. You know that trial lawyers don’t go into court with just enough proof to prove their case. What is this expression, there is an abundance of proof, right? And you have to have just like a trial lawyer in your copy and abundance of proof so much that the prospects is wow, even they don’t read every word of it. They look at it. Go on and on. They go. These guys are the real thing. They know what they’re talking about. I’m going to get this.
Jason Hartman 22:05
Okay, good, good. Good stuff. Bob, do you have a little gift for our listeners, right?
Bob Bly 22:11
Yeah, if you go to this URL if you have a pencil handy, www dot b is in boy, Li my last name boy.com forward slash digital. You can get the first copy, you can download the first chapter of my digital marketing handbook for free, and I think you’ll find it useful.
Jason Hartman 22:34
Excellent. Bob Bly, thank you so much for joining us.
Bob Bly 22:37
Absolutely a pleasure. As always.
Jason Hartman 22:45
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