Jason Hartman welcomes Ryan Moran, author of 12 Months to $1 Million, to the show. They discuss his book and the blueprint Ryan outlines to hit your first million in sales. Ryan explains why we should look at product second and understand target audiences first. They end the show with Ryan’s thoughts on the economy and real estate.

Announcer 0:03
speakers, publishers, consultants, coaches and info marketers unite. The speaking of wealth show is your roadmap to success and significance. Learn the latest tools, technologies and tactics to get more bookings, sell more products and attract more clients. If you’re looking to increase your direct response sales, create a big time personal brand and become the go to guru. The speaking of wealth show is for you. here’s your host, Jason Hartman.

Jason Hartman 0:40
It’s my pleasure to welcome my good friend Ryan Daniel Moran. He is out with a new book 12 months to $1 million. How to Pick a winning product, build a real business and become a seven figure entrepreneur. The book is a small part of his resume. You He’s got a huge resume. He holds great conferences. He’s the founder of capitalism, calm, and formerly freedom Fastlane. You know, he’s bought and sold several businesses. He’s just done incredible things at a very young age. And that’s a pleasure to have him back on the show. Ryan, welcome. How you doing? Thanks, Jason. And I think we should clarify a lot of podcasters will say, bringing my good friend onto the show and you’ve met like twice, right? Yeah,

Ryan Moran 1:28
you’ve literally you’ve literally slept in my home. Yeah, so we should we should say actually good friend.

Jason Hartman 1:34
Yes. I remember that convertible. So phi slept on. And, and that was that was the weekend I came out and we went to dinner with Tim Ferriss. Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. You know what was funny about that, Ryan? That was actually a four hour dinner.

Ryan Moran 1:54
You know, I tell the story of that dinner in the book. Oh, do you really fantastic. So good. So I tell the story. First of all, we should just highlight the fact that Jason one this dinner was somebody that I’d wanted to meet with for a long time. He invites me Jason flies across country to have this dinner. And then he tells me where it is. And it’s in my condo building. I was

Jason Hartman 2:16
downstairs in the restaurant

Ryan Moran 2:19
flies across the country, and all I had to do was hit ground floor. On the elevator.

Jason Hartman 2:24
Yeah. But what

Ryan Moran 2:26
a baller Jason Hartman is such a baller. That’s just so cool. But I tell the story about how the one thing that Tim said at that dinner that really had an impact on my life, was he asked if we were wrapping up dinner and I said, Tim, you know, there’s one thing I would really regret if I didn’t ask you. And he gave me permission. And I said, Tim, you’ve reached what a lot of people aspire to be in terms of level of success in terms of notoriety and influence and wealth. And so what I want to know is Do you ever wonder if it’s all worth it? Uh huh. And he laughed and he said, I don’t remember.

Jason Hartman 3:00
I don’t remember your hearing you asked that question. Sorry. Yeah. What do you

Ryan Moran 3:03
say? Well, what he said was, I’ve discovered there’s a lot of things that are not worth pursuing. But the pursuit is worth it. I always stuck with me that there’s a lot of things it’s like Ecclesiastes is meaningless, meaningless. Everything is meaningless, right? Yeah, we create our own meaning with what we pursue.

Jason Hartman 3:21
Yeah, I’m surprised you pick Ecclesiastes is that is my favorite book in the Bible. And you’re an agnostic or an atheist, I don’t know. But Ecclesiastes. I mean, King Solomon is brilliant. You know, that’s

Ryan Moran 3:32
what Ecclesiastes is second on my favorite books. The Book of Esther is my favorite book. I named my daughter after the Book of Esther. Yeah. And you eat one day, we should have maybe now that I’m creating wealth podcast, but a spiritual conversation. I have a feeling we agree more than where we disagree. Oh, yeah.

Jason Hartman 3:48
And by the way, I’ll just speak to that for a moment and then we’ll get to that point. I know that you were studying to be a pastor, you were going to be a religious leader. That was a goal and then you change Your thing and became a capitalist,

Ryan Moran 4:02
religious leader of capitalists. Right. Exactly,

Jason Hartman 4:04
exactly. And, and capitalism is arguably the most successful religion ever. And I think one of the reasons is unlike religion is that capitalism is very natural. religion says you have to deny a lot of things. So it’s unnatural. And we can debate the merits of that for 16 days if you want, but let’s not go there. But I think religion is very good for society. And here’s my concept for that, Ryan, is that I think if you if you look at like communist dictatorships, and I know you hate communism as much as I do, and socialism, you know, they always take God out of the equation because they want to make government the big deal government, it’s like, and I think if you make a society only accountable to government, that’s a disaster. The reason is, is that you can always get away with something when it comes to government, right? There’s a black market, you can From the cops, you can do whatever. But even if it’s not true, okay, even if it’s not true, if people believe there is this greater thing, this greater power, and they hold themselves to some sort of accountability to that. I think that’s good for society. Go ahead.

Ryan Moran 5:20
Yeah. So we’re gonna go here. Okay. So you’ll be surprised at how little I disagree with what you said. But I interpret it just a little bit differently. So if we look at a concept like, like marriage, marriage is another institution, governments, institution, religious and institution, marriage is an institution, which are really ways that we instill things that we like, or things that we want to change into society. So religion has lots of great benefits. And I mean, they have physical benefits, but people who are plugged into community live longer.

Jason Hartman 5:57
Yeah, that community is a big part of religion. And by the way, I interviewed a famous atheist on my show. I can’t think of his name right now. But he’s written a zillion books on it. He’s, he’s a big deal. And he says the one thing we don’t have this community, that’s where atheism Yes, totally blows it.

Ryan Moran 6:12
Yeah, yeah. So we can instill those things into society through an institution like religion, or through government. And just we all think that his safety net, Jason, if you’re going through a hard time, and you’re like, I need to sleep on your couch and like, Come on over. Like, I’ll be your safety net, buddy. So we know that taking care of each other is a good thing. And so we instill it often through government programs, right? The downside of all institutions is once the thing that we have instilled is no longer necessary, we tend to hold on to them. That’s why it’s hard to rollback government. It is why it is difficult to scale down programs that we don’t like it’s difficult to change thoughts within a religion because they’re instilled in us so it’s a double edged thing where we still what’s important But then it makes it more difficult to adapt to what is new. And I think that is kind of our role as human beings to be pursuing what’s new, and then having conversations like this, to bring what we like into where we are now into society. Mm hmm. Good point.

Jason Hartman 7:17
One last thing about religion and I love By the way, on the back cover of Ryan’s book, it says, you know, he has a little blurb about his bio. And then at the end, it says, He loves talking about politics and religion, the two things that are considered off limits to my favorite conversation. I love it. I love it. It’s so funny. But the other thing I’ll say about religion is that a lot of people will say, Well, look at all those people in church. They’re a bunch of hypocrites, right? You hear this all the time. Like, I know religious people that burn me in a business deal. And of course, that’s true. Right? The question they’re asking the wrong question, though. The question they should be asking is, how much worse would these people be? If they didn’t have some concept of religion, they might be barbaric. They might be much more and we never know we’ll never know the answer because yeah,

Ryan Moran 8:08
opposite to which is we’re stone.

Jason Hartman 8:11
Yeah, yeah, just the last statement on that is, you know, I always talk about on my podcast, you can’t hear the dogs that don’t bark. Right? The there’s a profound impact in what is unseen and what doesn’t happen. But nobody knows like, minimum wage Ryan and this one you’ll you’ll love, right? I’m sure you agree on this. Bernie Sanders will say well raise the minimum wage. And and Okay, so people that have jobs make a little more money, great. But then they never count all the people that never get a job or lost their they count. Maybe they lost their job, but they don’t never count who didn’t get a job because the government interfered in that transaction where two people wanted to, you know, someone wanted to employ them and another one had to work. And the government says no, you can’t do that. Sorry, you know,

Ryan Moran 8:57
yeah, that’s exactly right. And I would, I would say minimum wage. As an institution, just like all the other things that we’ve talked about, where you have something that you’re trying to force into society, because you see its benefits, and then you are unable to roll that away or to grow through that, because you’ve instilled the bad pieces of it along with what you wanted to change for the positive.

Jason Hartman 9:19
Absolutely. So you were gonna say something else. I think about religion. I just want to make my point about how much worse would they be that’s all and then let’s just do

Ryan Moran 9:28
the interview. Sure, just just that I think we tend to look for the evidence of what we already believe, which is like an interrogation bias. Yeah, again, your case you’re saying religion is a pacifying, calming, uniting idea? How much worse would these people be? If they didn’t have it? Somebody else might say, religion is a divisive, old way of thinking and look at these people who are screwing these others in a business deal, and they’re Christians. And so I think we can find evidence for that. Is that we believe, I think that religion can be a way of bringing beliefs that we want to continue voluntary believes that we want to continue and instilling them into society so that they last a long time. But there’s positives and benefits to that as well.

Jason Hartman 10:16
Yeah, no question about it. No question about it. Okay. Good stuff. So, we I don’t think any of this is in the book, we just cover but let’s talk about your book a little bit. I mean, you there’s so much to talk about with you, Ryan. Because you’ve just done so much. It’s such a young age it’s, it’s truly amazing. Maybe just to get a context what motivates you So give us a little bit of your background, your you know, you were going to be a pastor, you got out of seminary I think you were in it right? You were actually I was

Ryan Moran 10:47
Yeah, okay for how long? Less than a year but I finished out the probe. I finished out the the program at the institution as in I went to Indiana Wesleyan University. They had a degree that was seminary and a degree reform and so I opted out of the degree but I finished it Indiana Wesleyan University, which is actually where I discovered Austrian economics okay and and monetarist thinking. And so it completely changed my life because it made me fascinated in economics.

Jason Hartman 11:15
You went from religion to religion to the religion of capitalism. And capitalism is the most successful religion ever. You’ve all know Harare, in his book Sapiens talks about that. That’s a brilliant book, by the way, highly recommended. And the sequel to it homo Deus, which is also excellent. Many of you have heard of heard of him. He’s a very big author. So what got you interested? I mean, you really started your business career as an Amazon seller, is that correct?

Ryan Moran 11:41
I started my career when I was 18 years old from my college dorm room as an affiliate marketer. I learned how to get websites to show up high in Google, get free traffic and sell things on those websites. And I built email lists and monetize those email lists. And it became an internet marketer kind of by happenstance, because I was in school to be a pastor thinking I was gonna make 30 or $40,000 a year, I wanted, I was always entrepreneurial. So I was always looking for the new way that always motivated us as kids just find the next thing. And what I discovered a few years in was that my internet marketing skills when applied to what I would consider a real business, having physical product brands was a lot more effective. So rather than just trying to make this thing happen on the side, if I took my skill set and applied it to a real business, it was a lot more effective. Amazon was an emerging platform at the time. And so I started businesses that we’re selling products on Amazon, I’m often labeled as an Amazon seller. I just think of myself as an entrepreneur and a businessman who looks at whatever the modern trend or the modern opportunity is. And right now, that is e commerce. And a few years ago, it was just Amazon because Amazon was this wide open West that was growing by leaps and bounds and it still is growing by leaps and bounds. But now all of e commerce has changed. With so was the first business selling yoga mats on Amazon after after the internet and affiliate marketing kind of thing and getting sites to rank, then it was Amazon. And was that yoga mats. You know, it’s funny you should ask. I should clarify. I made my first million before ever selling on Amazon. And then I took those skills, applied them to Amazon, and I decided it would be a good idea to start three businesses at once. Jason, that’s not a good idea. So, okay, so I start with three different partners, by the way. So I started a yoga mats business, a sports nutrition company and a supplement business. All the same. That’s right. It was for I forgot about the sports nutrition and supplements. Yeah. Okay, so so the yoga mat company I built and sold within a year. The supplement company was a disaster failure, and the sports nutrition company. I started with $600 to get to about $10 million a year and sold that for an eight figure exit. Wow. So I had I kind of had a strikeout a base hit and a home run, what distinguish

Jason Hartman 14:02
what’s the difference between supplements and sports nutrition?

Ryan Moran 14:05
You know, that’s a great question who it’s for. That’s the biggest thing. And one of the things I hammer home over and over and over in a book in the book is that your business is determined by not what you sell, but who you sell to. And, and it’s kind of like content marketing, like we could be having the same conversation. And if we were talking, if it was a religious podcast, might not be as popular. But, but since we’re talking to entrepreneurs, and capitalists and people are interested in the direction of the world, we can have this nice conversation that covers a variety of topics. So who you target determines how successful businesses no matter it is what you’re selling. So I had a supplement company that sold generic fish oil and things that everybody takes which you don’t have a target market when you’re doing that, that business fail. Were on the other side, I had a business that sold similar types of products like pre workouts and post workouts and to testosterone boosters and branched chain amino acids, very specific to a sports and athletic market. And it was wildly successful. It really the only difference, you can make an argument, yes, we sold different products. But the main thing that was different was who it was that we targeted.

Jason Hartman 15:16
That’s excellent. You know, Ryan, one of the things you set on your podcast A long time ago that really influenced me is that the game is about building an audience quickly and monetizing to that audience. And I love that that is just a fantastic philosophy, if you want to call it that. Can you expand on that idea? A little bit?

Ryan Moran 15:37
Yeah. And I would say the audience is the primary asset that all businesses are doing at the time that we’re recording this. Joe Rogan just announced that he signed a nine figure deal with Spotify to bring his content over to the Spotify platform. And we all know that the reason Spotify paid 100 million dollars to Joe Rogan was not because of the sponsor. Brother knew it was because of the audience that was being brought over. He just legitimize spod spod casts. That’s,

Jason Hartman 16:09
I love it,

Ryan Moran 16:10
man, it is not a bad name. So Spotify just legitimize their podcast player because now Joe Rogan is exclusive to them, because he brought the audience over it had nothing to do with ad revenue had nothing to do with the profitability had everything to do with the scale of the audience. The audience was the asset. And all business is really customer acquisition and audience building. And when you are aligning with your audience to bring them closer to the goals that they have for themselves, that’s a business and that’s what we’re all actually here to do.

Jason Hartman 16:42
spod casting remember folks, you heard it here first. Yeah, Joe Rogan 100 million dollar deal with Spotify to make his podcast exclusive on Spotify. And you know what’s interesting about that, Ryan is we look at some of these giant deals. That rush limbaugh bid. I think that was years ago was 150 $8 million 10 year contract or something. And then howard stern did a giant contract like that. But now it’s a podcaster.

Ryan Moran 17:10
Yes. So that is huge. It shows you the way the media landscape has changed so much. But like you say, it’s all about an audience. It’s all about an audience. I wonder what the multiplier was on that deal. By the way, you know, you said it’s not about the sponsorship, it’s about the audience. But his sponsorship couldn’t have been, I don’t know, 20 million a year when he got to five times multiple has to be way bigger than that, right? I have no idea. I mean, the the most expensive podcast rate I’ve ever heard was a $38,000 per show sponsorship. Who’s that? And so if Joe’s is there or around there, and he does maybe what three adds an episode, let’s just say it’s two. So he makes somewhere around $100,000 80 to $100,000 per episode, and he does what three weeks So 300 k a week now, so a million dollars a month, you

Jason Hartman 18:05
know, you

Ryan Moran 18:07
might get 10 times return.

Jason Hartman 18:08
Yeah. Wow. That’s that’s truly amazing. That’s truly amazing. And it really shows you how, how the world is changing. Okay. So just in

Ryan Moran 18:15
he might get to keep the ad revenue to we I mean, we don’t know, we don’t

Jason Hartman 18:19
know we still own the audience

Ryan Moran 18:20
and own the revenue. But now just be giving up YouTube and Apple podcasts to be exclusive. It might just purely be a licensing deal, but he gets to keep all the ad revenue you imagine. That is insane. It’s

Jason Hartman 18:34
incredible. And he got Elan musk to smoke a joint on a show that had the ratings went nuts for a bad episode. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. So build the audience monetize to the audience. And you go through that in the book so well, before actually before we get to that, you said e commerce much more than just Amazon. Yeah. Tell us about that.

Ryan Moran 18:57
Yeah, so I mean Shopify is growing. Just As much as Amazon is now, I would consider anyone who sponsors the Joe Rogan podcast and sends them over to their own website to be an e commerce. It’s online shopping. And because of what we’ve seen happen in the last few months, online shopping has exploded even more to the point where even Walmart shoppers are now going online. So we are now seeing the laggard side of the adoption curve. Burton come into society right now have all retail stores have to have an online presence if they even want to survive. So that’s e commerce is not shopping on Amazon. It is all online shopping all online advertising, all online exposure, and that is just all commerce. At this point. At some point, we’ll drop the E and we’ll just realize that we call commerce Yeah, right.

Jason Hartman 19:51
And you know, that’s interesting that you say we’ll drop a V because in the first.com boom 1999 2000 2001 ish that range, they stopped using.com. Of course, they used it. It’s on their website, but they didn’t refer to themselves as e trade.com. They just said e trade. Of course, we have a website. Duh. That’s an interesting point that will drop the E. That’s good. Okay, so how does someone do it? I mean, we’ve seen a few of these brands, but they seem to be very well funded, when they’re not doing the Amazon thing. A few that I recognize the quip toothbrush, for example, not on Amazon, at least last I checked, and the socks I can’t think of the name of the company. But, you know, Tim Ferriss, we had dinner with was promoting me undies for a while or they send a new boxer shorts every month. And

Ryan Moran 20:43
and these are outside of that. Is that what you’re talking about? When you say? Are you talking about getting your product into stores or with big retailers or what goes on outside the Amazon world if you had a good, good question. So my target market of the people that I serve are entrepreneurs. are starting their first seven figure venture. That’s my core target audience and I’m probably the best in the world at helping an entrepreneurial minded person, break seven figures sometimes go to eight figures. That’s my real wheelhouse. But what you’re bringing up is just an extension of that which is building a brand, a brand that has processes to acquire customers. And that can be a blend of Amazon and other advertising. Or it can be focused on one channel like Shopify, but here’s kind of my three stage approach that I give to most entrepreneurs, the entrepreneur who is sitting at their cubicle or at home saying it’s time for me to get a piece of the multi trillion dollar pie that is e commerce. I say we’re going to break this into a 12 month plan that has three phases. Those three stages are each four months. The first four months, I call the grind, and it is simply four months of making hard decisions that most people don’t want to make like who is my customer? What products Am I going to sell What’s the first product? I’m going to sell to them? How am I going to launch this? How am I going to fund this, the boring stuff that no one sees except to you and making those decisions and get them out of the way. So we got through that as fast as possible. with the goal of having one sale. That’s it, we got four months to take one sale of one product, this second four month sprint, which I call the growth is about taking that one product and getting it to 25 sales a day. Why? Because for products that 25 sales a day is 100 sales a day, and then a $30 price point, that’s a million dollar business. It’s like 1.1 ish million dollars. So that is the the second four month phase is getting that to 25 sales a day. And you do that through basic advertising by getting good reviews, by creating connections with your customers by building an audience. And by doing the hard stuff that most people don’t want to do for about four months. That’s what it takes it 25 sales a day, and then that unlocks the third stage, which is the Gold, which is when we repeat that process over three more products. And now we’ve got the road paved. So we can go a lot faster. We now have a customer base, we have systems, we have repeat customers, we know the advertising game. And so within 12 months, we can afford products selling 25 sales a day, which is 100 sales a day. And then a $30 price point is a million dollar business. That’s how I help entrepreneurs cross that first million and from there we can add in other things like podcast sponsorships, or doing the me undies home delivery program like there are other comes with like a monthly program, correct? Yes, but most people are getting into this game or not well funded, e commerce disruptive companies. They’re small one and two person shows that are building a business because they want to live life on their own terms or they have an idea that they’re excited to bring to market so they can go this Silicon Valley route of raising a bunch of money and doing large customer acquisition systems or they can do it in this way. Which allows them to do it with very little capital get up to speed very quickly hit a million dollar business prove that they have a good idea. And then they’re off to the races. You know,

Jason Hartman 24:09
that’s fantastic. You really just clarify that. And let me give you a testimonial. When you say you’re probably the best in the world, that may well be 100% accurate, because I know a lot of your students personally, and I’ve seen them build incredible businesses and have big exits too. So you know, yes, more than $10 million dollar exits. So really, really truly, truly incredible. Thank you. So Ryan, the the magic question probably everybody’s thinking right now or at least I am. What’s the product? You know? If you want to start a e commerce business, not an e commerce business, a commerce business, every business is a commerce business. What What should you sell? What’s the magic widget? What How do you know what to buy? Pick, there’s a plethora, there’s a sea of products. And you know, we’re all of us, I’m sure have these kind of regrets, and I certainly do. I remember I was hosting when I lived in Arizona, I lived a block from ASU. And I was hosting a birthday party for this cute girl. Okay, and I remember I had a bunch of people over for her birthday. And I pulled out what is now called a selfie stick. And everybody thought, what is that I had my old iPhone, you know, much many versions ago, this was maybe 2012 ish. And I put it up there and held it up and took everybody’s picture in the room, you know, with the view. I was in a high rise behind us and everything. And everybody’s like, what is that thing? You know, they’re like, they never saw one of those before. I couldn’t believe it. And now, selfie sticks are everywhere, right? So what’s the magic product? You know, we’ve all got a product or a Gizmo or gadget we’ve all thought of right that we

Ryan Moran 25:56
six months later we saw it’s everywhere. Right? All of the money In Jesus bobbleheads

Jason Hartman 26:04
the Jesus bobblehead folks, that’s good. Okay, so so here’s the fact that you just had one of those handy if you didn’t bring it up during our religious

Ryan Moran 26:14
lives as Jason Yeah. So so the here’s the answer to your question. That’s the most popular question I’m asked over and over again, what do I sell? Yeah, right. The way you answer that question is by answering a different question, which is, who do I sell to? Who is my customer? Who do I serve? Who am I in business to help? If you ask the WHO THE what I sell becomes a very clear and obvious. So if we say that our target market is new dads, which I am for the second time, right, I’ve a six month old. Yep. Phil was like, I can tell you that when you become a dad, strollers become the most fascinating thing on the planet. You’ve never

Jason Hartman 26:56
you’ve never been hearing of strollers Yeah.

Ryan Moran 27:00
Before you have a kid and strollers are the annoying thing that other people push around for some Ryan Moran reason? Yeah. And then you know, you’re like, oh, man, that one has a really interesting turn radius and right. Yeah, and I was this one.

Jason Hartman 27:16
I want one of those, like a status symbol, right?

Ryan Moran 27:18
Yeah. What brand is that? Yeah. All right. So because I started a new journey, which was becoming a father. I spent some money on some things on strollers and on clothes and unchanging stations and on bassinet and on this machine called this SNU, which rocks Philip to sleep at the exact rate Easter, I don’t know. Yeah, and bottles and baby food and all kinds of things. So I’m on this new journey. I’m making new buying behaviors for things that I didn’t previously know that I needed because I didn’t write and so if you know exactly who it is and the new journey that they are starting, think about serving a new real estate investor to If you can, if you have information and you have podcasts and you’ve got ready to go houses, and you might have an investment funds and opportunities and relationships, these are all things that people need. When they’re at the beginning of that journey of becoming a real estate investor or a new entrepreneur, they need training, and they might buy a podcast, Mike, and they might buy information on YouTube, and they buy all kinds of things. They buy masterminds, and they buy. So when you get somebody who is starting a new journey of their life, and you make that your customer, then all of the products that become available to you are where you start and that way you’re not going is it selfie sticks, or is it Jesus bobbleheads? Or is it crystals? Or is it No? Who is the person? And then what is that person already by? Can you name five products that person already buys and if you can’t pick a different market, but what most people will discover is that they’re looking for themselves or they’re looking for someone that they know I have a student who is market is new moms and nursing moms. And his market is really his wife and all her friends. So he just has to be really curious about what his wife and her peers are going through. And that says data for what the markets doing and what products he’s going to release. So it’s almost always someone you know, or someone or someone that you are, and then what you already buy and narrowing in from there. Okay, so that makes perfect sense. Now, that leads to the question of how do we pick that customer? How do we know which customers the best, you know, do you want to focus on millennials, teenagers, Gen Z, baby boomers, you know, how do you know you know, new parents? What? How do you know what avatar is it just what you’re most interested in like you can you can make a fortune off any of these markets or lecture you can make a fortune of any of these markets. And what I’ve discovered is you can you can have two brands that sell the exact same product, but two different people. And then both be wildly successful. So the the way that here’s a good story I have a, I have a student who sells his first product is an immunity supplement that he’s selling on Amazon. Well, Jason, there are 1000 immunity supplement companies. Yeah, there’s there’s actually now, right, they’re popping up everywhere. You can buy one and it’ll look exactly like the other and most of us don’t know the difference between the two. However, his market is American truck drivers. That is his direct brand. Why? Because he is a truck driver. And because he’s a truck driver, he can sit there and tell you we’re touching things all day long. We’re meeting strangers all day long. We’re cooped up. We’re sitting all day long. We don’t see the sun. But our immune systems are different because we’re not we’re just under different circumstances than the rest of the world. So he started an immunity brand and a supplement brand specifically for truck drivers. Why? Because you can speak exactly to them. He knows their pain points. He knows what they’re going through. He knows what they’re struggling with. He knows what they want. He knows what language they use. He knows what branding they use. And because he’s going to bring this product to market, the truck driver is going to be primed and ready for that brand that is made specifically for them. And he’s able to serve them in a way that he couldn’t have served them if he had just made a generic supplement company. Even though the products are exactly the same. The truck driver is much more likely to take one step closer to the health that they desire most because the branding is specific exactly to them. So it is not about do I start a supplement company or do I target millennials, it is more I want to sell supplements, who is the rabid group of people that I can help that I have access to an example of this is our buddy Mike Dillard. I was on his podcast and we were kind of riffing about what physical product brand he should start. And I was like Mike, you’ve got maybe 100,000 or a million People who follow you. My guess is that the thing that you struggle with most is how do I come up with an idea that serves all hundred thousand or million people? And he said, That’s exactly right. I said, that’s the wrong question. The question is, are there 500 people in my list of a million that would absolutely love something that I brought in. And that gave him the idea right away because he had a story about overcoming a specific health challenge that only a small part of his audience resonated with but when they resonate with it, they really resonated with it. And that’s when you know that you’ve got a multi million dollar winner. Okay, so narrow

Jason Hartman 32:35
the focus. That’s one element of that. So Ryan narrowing the focus is key. And I think that’s a very, very good point. So is the idea to find a specific market like the truck driver example, but a big enough market at the same time. Are there any distinctions there we should think about in 2014 Dave asked, Spray brought mold free coffee to the marketplace. Yeah

Ryan Moran 33:03
talk about there was no market for mold free coffee, but he did have an audience at the time that was interested in biohacking. Now. Had Dave Asprey wanted to be a Coffee Company. His second product would have been a dark roast, right? It wasn’t it was MCT oil and bulletproof bars and now you can go to a $15,000 retreat to use as biohacking gear, right. So no it is it is not about finding a market that is big enough. It is about finding a group of people that are on a journey that goes deep enough. And if you’re just committed to serving that group of people along the journey, more people enter in the journey you gather more market share, you come out with more and more products. That is the key to hitting seven and eight figures.

Jason Hartman 33:51
Okay, good. So it’s kind of, you know, like you can also maybe think about this like the long tail. The concept of the long tail is a new niche market, but that niche market can grow and it starts picking up other early adopters from outside of itself. Now, probably not a lot of people become truck drivers suddenly in the prior example, but but you know, maybe they Well, you know what, it’s like airborne, right? That teacher invented airborne stuff. And, you know, I don’t know if that was meant for like people flying, or if it was just that diseases airborne, right? Or I’m not quite sure of that message. But it seemed to resonate that, that expanded way beyond. But that was a schoolteacher, it’s like she could have said, Hey, this is a supplement for school teachers to not get sick from all those kids touching everything. Right? That’s so I don’t know if you know, this, just and that’s exactly what she said.

Ryan Moran 34:44
Yeah. Okay, so that’s, that’s exactly how it started. It was a supplement for teachers. And because it was so specific to teachers, she told that story over and over and over again, it got a little bit of a raving fan base, right. And then she got on Oprah Yeah. And so what People will say is Oh yeah, she got on Oprah Yeah. Right, which is true. But the reason she got on Oprah was because she developed a brand that was specific to teachers. And when teacher day came up on Oprah, the teacher entrepreneur, got featured on Oprah and then the thing went crazy. It’s kind of like, you know what, Clif Bars are sure, Jason I have them.

Jason Hartman 35:23
Yeah. So do you have any carbs though?

Ryan Moran 35:26
Yeah, but do you also know what Luna bars are?

Jason Hartman 35:28
I have Luna and Luna bar.

Ryan Moran 35:30
Alright, so have you ever eaten a Luna bar? Yes. What’s wrong with you? I don’t, I don’t think they’re very good. I mean, I haven’t you. Well, Jason, the Luna bar is for women.

Jason Hartman 35:41
Oh, I didn’t know that.

Ryan Moran 35:45
So, so this point, Clif Bar and Luna bar are owned by the same company okay? Clif Bar was made to be the one for the male audience.

Jason Hartman 35:54
I think I think of rock climbing. When I think of Clif Bar,

Ryan Moran 35:57
yes. I mean, on the packaging, right? You’ve got the rock climber on the packaging. It’s written in the masculine he, he tells the story The founder is is a male. It’s made for male endurance athletes. But that’s how it came to market then it gets enough adoption to where a bunch of everybody Yeah, Luna bars exactly the same. It’s actually it’s actually the Clif Bar for women. Yeah. And if you read the packaging, look at the branding. It’s made for women, but then it reached certain adoption where you’re like, Oh, these are good. Yeah, I like I like them. I just

Jason Hartman 36:32
sort of look at the sugar content, and the protein content. Whatever I choose a bar,

Ryan Moran 36:39
right, well, I’m with I’m with you. We used to go to vitamin Shoppe or GNC or shop online specifically for bodybuilding bars or back then it was power bars. Right. Thank goodness we’ve been we’ve moved on Yeah, but but now that market has now grown to the point where now there are specific macro friendly, low sugar high protein bars coming to market requested that they just sold for a billion dollars. They created a new category which opened up the high fiber category. And so that’s how brand adoption happens is it is brand serving the evolution and the adoption of new desires by a very specific

Jason Hartman 37:19
group of people. Yeah, really fascinating. Ryan, I want to ask you about one more whole separate topic area, and maybe talk about that before we go. But on the business side of it that we’re talking about now, anything you want to tell our audience I mean, obviously, there’s so much to this, we, you know, we went through the three stage process over the course of 12 months, you can do that to build a million dollar business, and some really interesting stuff on how brands work. I gained some good understanding on that. But anything else you want to share with our audience, just anything. The other thing that I hope entrepreneurs pick up from this is that this process builds businesses that can be scaled and sold in the Internet marketing world. It is mostly about fast cash fancy cars and not real businesses. It’s about how much we can extract from the short term process. Let me give all our listeners an equation for the internet marketing world. Ryan, you’ve probably heard this one. But whenever somebody tells you how much money they’re making, and they brag about it, just divide by eight.

Ryan Moran 38:20
Okay, divide by eight.

Ryan Moran 38:23
Okay, gotcha. All right, yeah. But a physical products brand is something that can be scaled and sold. Because right now we’re in this changing of the guard, where all of the big brands like the Kellogg’s of the world, are buying up these small brands that have a presence online, because that’s what they need in order to shore up their share prices and shore up new products that serve their existing customer bases. They can’t innovate as fast as new nimble entrepreneurs can. So they’re buying up the little brands, even the brands that just do a few million dollars a year are being bought High valuations, because big brands are after the person that they target more than they’re after the product.

Jason Hartman 39:07
Hmm, very interesting. Very interesting point. Okay, good stuff. The other topic I want to cover with you quickly is, you and I both met because you like real estate investing. And just thought I’d get your thoughts on where we are now where we’re going. I have two months ago. And you know, the timeframe we’re in is pandemic era, folks. So just if you listen to this podcast much later, so you have a point of reference, but two months ago, before anybody was saying it, I was saying that there is going to be a mass migration to low density living. I think that is huge. It’s a tidal wave, and a lot of people are going to be very rich and some will end up very poor because of that migration trend. And there’s going to be changes in lifestyles, roommates, assisted living, multi generational housing, I’ve identified a whole bunch of these These trends but you know, I just thought I’d get your take on real estate investing, you know, what, where do you think the economy is going? You’re, you know, you talk about the economy all the time. It’s one of my favorite topics is probably I’m single economists aren’t, you know, like, super romantically attractive.

Ryan Moran 40:23
No one has Peter Schiff as a sex symbol on their vision board. Oh, but

Jason Hartman 40:27
he is married. Man, his wife is good looking do matter. Now.

Ryan Moran 40:33
So I where I think we are in the cycle is I think we are being forced out of cities. And by force, I mean, we’re going to voluntarily choose to not have around a bunch of human beings, right. And I think the micro community is going to be like the neighborhood is going to matter a lot more and the neighborhood looks a lot like a suburb, or it looks like more land more space. I think we’re now going to see See, like here in Texas, it costs more to buy a small condo downtown in the hotbed than it does to buy a 25 acre ranch. 20 minutes outside of town right. Watch how quickly that’s gonna flip.

Jason Hartman 41:13
Yeah, I agree with you.

Ryan Moran 41:14
Yeah. So I think that that’s the trend that more space, bigger homes and or not maybe not even bigger homes but like more neighborhood is going to matter a lot more than being close to the close to the action.

Jason Hartman 41:29
Yeah. And is distributed now you can have anything delivered, right? The action has flattened The world is flat. I’m not talking about like flattening the curve I’m talking about the Thomas Friedman concept of the world is flat. Now, the action is flattening because everybody is now finally adopted to you know, teleconferencing, video meetings, all that kind of stuff. And it’s really great, which actually we’ll get to your book tour in just a moment. But so I think you’re right about that. What about the economy and General, though, for investors, you know, I’ve sort of likened it to this dichotomy. One part is, I think we’re going to wake up to a much smaller economy. I am not positive on the economy, I’m negative, I’m bearish. Okay. I think the economy is going to get smaller, I think people are going to look toward a simpler life, and the economy is going to shrink. That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong. But on the other side of that, you can make money investing, if you’re investing with the trend, right. One of them we talked about is the trend from, you know, high to lower density. And there are many others. But you know, your thoughts on the economy in general?

Ryan Moran 42:39
Well, I don’t think we’re going back. You know, I think there’s like this demand or this desire to go back to normal, whatever that means. Right. And I don’t think we’re going back I do think we’re going forward and I think forward is going to be better than the past. In terms of the size of the economy, I think long term It’s going to be larger. But there’s going to be this this adjustment period where we are really folding forward the things that we like into the future. For example, this shocked me. My gym opened this week, and I don’t really want to go. Yeah, right. You know, like, I would rather have rather workout in my home gym. And I would rather get that out. So it’s awesome, right? Yeah. So my spending is actually going to be I’m going to spend more on a home gym than I am on going to the gym. But that has other repercussions like that means a lot of gyms are gonna suffer a lot. But that attention is now going to flow to any company that is providing a home gyms for people like you and me.

Jason Hartman 43:46
So you need you need an extra room for your home gym now. They need extra space. You need room for your home office. And if there’s a couple with two kids, that’s four people and if the kids are studying At home now they’re not going to school, and both members of a couple are working at home. You now need for home offices. So I think the homes are going to get bigger, certainly than the condo in New York City or the condo in downtown Austin. And so there is going to be more demand for space and the home is the center of the universe. In the 90s. Ryan, you were way too young and you’re always teasing me about how old am I right? But in the 90s there was this futurist who was really popular back then faith popcorn, and she wrote about this concept called cocooning. cocooning. Okay, it was like our key buzzword back then. And the big thing moving us toward cocooning meaning staying at home was here was the technology ready for this? Home Theater systems? theater systems, you know, why do people need to go to the movies? Why do they need to go to a Broadway play, we’ve got these big screen TVs now that we didn’t used to have and these great sound systems. So you can just enjoy all this at home and you can cocoon Now we’ve got the internet, the home office, the home gym, you know everything.

Ryan Moran 45:03
But But yeah, I think we’re talking about the businesses. I think people that sell products for the home, whether they be home gym, and we saw what happened right after this. All the home gym equipment just sold out, right. But anything that is for the home, the home is the center of the universe now, right? That’s right. And so that’s one of those just next trends that if you’re serving, you’ll do great. And the outside economist might see that as a reduction of economic activity, but it’s just the puck moving. It’s just moving the way that it always has been. And our mistake would be trying to keep things the way that they are. And rather than allowing things to just evolve, right? It’s creative destruction, isn’t it? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, good, good stuff. So anything more about the economy investing anything else you want to say let’s wrap it up. I think that we might see an accelerated rate of old established businesses going on. Oh, yeah, I think all that has happened during quarantine is that we’ve expedited what was naturally going to happen, right. And so getting ahead of the next trend is becoming more and more important, because I think the life cycle of businesses may be shorter, because the purpose of business is to come in help someone along their journey, move and help them move on down the line. And we’re moving faster. We’re moving through those journeys a lot faster.

Jason Hartman 46:29
Yeah, we’ve got the future closer to us very much. Yeah. So what was going to happen in five, seven years is already happened. Now. It’s happening now. The adoption of teleconferencing, which you know, this technology is not new. It’s been around for 1520 years easily. But now everybody’s actually using it and realizing they can work at home even if they thought they couldn’t. So that’s good. And you know, Ryan, that’s also I think you alluded to this before, but it’s going to make a lot of businesses money. more efficient, very that efficiency benefit is going to enrich us, because the future has been brought forward. So fast. Yeah,

Ryan Moran 47:09
what a lot of good

Ryan Moran 47:10
things that I don’t think we give enough credit to when we’re looking at economics is the benefit of lower prices. Economists fear this, right? They should know. Yeah, they see that as the wrong direction, but it’s really the natural order of things. So for example, had we not had we not intervened at all with any stimulus plan in this pandemic, then you would have had a natural downward pressure on everything prices would have come through the floor, and we do see that and so we see it at the gas pump, for example, right, but we would have seen it in wages which people would decry, but standard of livings would actually go up right, because things would be so cheap housing prices would come down, stocks would come down prices, everything would come way down, but we’ve been inflating our way through it. To keep prices at a certain level, I don’t think we give enough credit to the benefit of lower prices, which is what stimulates demand, and allows us to go after the things and the goods and services that we want faster.

Jason Hartman 48:14
So a lot of your students use Chinese manufacturers, and that supply chain has been disrupted, obviously. And now, even though the supply chain is coming back online, there’s been some demand destruction, there’s been some supply destruction and that supply demand shock is what that’s called. But a lot of people are looking to bring to onshore those supply chains and and diversify them at least do some of its moving to Africa or other low cost places, but some of its moving back to the US. Is that going to cause inflation or will increase efficiencies offset that?

Ryan Moran 48:49
I don’t think productivity increases inflation? I think government policy increases inflation monetary. Yeah, right. I mean, We say Federal Reserve is independent of the government. It’s really the fourth branch of government. Right? So I just I, I consider our reserve a branch of government here. That’s government policy on my mind. Right. But I don’t think productivity ever increases inflation intervention does. So we might see inflation happened, but I don’t think it’s going to because we’re bringing production on shore. Good. Good stuff. Ryan, give out your website and wrap it up with any closing thoughts. My Websites super hard to remember. It’s called capitalism calm. And my podcast is also called capitalism.com. And I wrote a book, it’s really good, you should get it. It’s called 12 months to 1 million. It’s how to pick a winning product, build a real business and become a seven figure entrepreneur.

Jason Hartman 49:46
Fantastic. That’s great. You know, I think the only person who can’t remember the title of your website is Bernie Sanders.

Ryan Moran 49:53
I thought you’re gonna say Joe Biden. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 49:54
well, Joe Biden can’t remember anything. Oh, well, I go

Ryan Moran 49:58
to the capital account. lot you know the website.

Jason Hartman 50:03
There you go. It’s funny to see him trying to stream from home isn’t it? It’s pretty hilarious.

Ryan Moran 50:10
guy. Yeah, I do too. Well, good stuff. Ryan Moran. Thanks so much for joining us. It’s been awesome talking to you, as always, always a blast hanging out with you. Thanks so much for having me.

Jason Hartman 50:25
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