NY Times bestselling author Dr. Steve Turley joins Jason Hartman to discuss the breaking up of the world and reverting to a cultural appetite that differs from the one size fits all ideology of modernity. Dr. Turley talks about how modern intellectual theory has hindered the teachings of conversation and shares that modernity is collapsing into post-modernism. They also delve into cultural Marxism, economic Marxism, and The Monologue Media Vs. The Dialogue Media.

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Jason Hartman 0:40
Welcome to the show. This is Jason Hartman, your host and every 10th episode, we do something kind of special kind of different. What we do is we go off topic, so regardless of which show it is on the Hartman media network, whether it be one of the financial shows economics, real estate, investing, travel, longevity, all of the other topics that we have every 10th episode, we go off topic, and we explore something of general interest, something of general life success value. And so many of our listeners around the world in 164 countries have absolutely loved our 10th episode shows. So that’s what we’re going to do today. And let’s go ahead and get to our guest with a special 10th episode show. And of course, on the next episode, we’ll be back to our regular programming. Here we go. It’s my pleasure to welcome Dr. Steve Turley to the show. He is an internationally recognized scholar, speaker and author of so many books, about 20 of them give or take. He’s one of the most exciting voices in today’s intellectual dark web. He has a very popular YouTube channel with over 400,000 subscribers, New York Times bestselling author of again, many, many books, including the new nationalism, how the populist right is defeating globalism and awakening, a new political order. Obviously, we’ve seen this spread around the world. And in certainly in the US, with another election coming up. I think there’s a lot to talk about civil unrest, all kinds of crazy stuff. Steve, welcome. How are you?

Dr. Steve Turley 2:17
I’m great. Jason, thanks so much for having me here. It’s wonderful. Thank you.

Jason Hartman 2:20
It’s good to have you and you’re coming to us from Delaware. Is that correct?

Dr. Steve Turley 2:23
Yeah, I’m right at them. Through no fault of my own, I like to say,

Jason Hartman 2:27
Hey, it’s a desirable business climate. That’s for sure.

Dr. Steve Turley 2:30
That’s true. We’re the corporate capital of the world. That’s right.

Jason Hartman 2:33
Absolutely. More corporations squeeze into that tiny state.

Dr. Steve Turley 2:39
Also, Nevada, I believe, right.

Jason Hartman 2:41
Are you in Nevada? Yeah, there’s a couple others. But you know, you’ve also got a book with another interesting title, the abolition of sanity? And, you know, I think nowadays it is, it is really amazing. First of all, maybe I’ll comment, just the lack of critical thinking ability among the populace. You see reporters stick a microphone in someone’s face, and you kind of can’t believe it. I mean, didn’t didn’t these people go to school, they have no sense of history. I mean, it’s just really amazing. Is that part of the new nationalism movement?

Dr. Steve Turley 3:13
Yeah. In terms of the the backlash against that, absolutely. One of the one of the major developments over the last three decades has been the comeback of what’s called classical education, such as the education of our founding fathers, it really was the education of Western civilization for a good 1500 years. In its Christian form, it goes back 2500 years in its Athenian form, it’s Roman form, technically known as pi de a, we use the word for pediatrician, you know, how do you raise a child, right, and back then they believe that critical thinking was logic was essential to understanding the world, when there was actually a stage in your education known as dialectics and the terms de electio to speak back and forth, to be able to listen to each other and to be able to converse with each other to converse, co we’ve lost that that’s died over the last few decades, because largely through a lot of modern educational theory, that’s more or less been kind of pushed away by a growing movement of homeschoolers or these classical schools and the like, who are saying, you know what, let’s go back to those basics. Let’s go back to some critical thinking, so that we can actually talk to each other again, and think soberly about life.

Jason Hartman 4:34
I mean, think all the open minded people on these college campuses, would you think they would like this idea, right, and debate would be this healthy thing? They just squash debate? It

Dr. Steve Turley 4:47
seems like Absolutely, yeah. debate is, is just from this vantage point, what you’re talking about on a college campus, it’s just another expression of white supremacy. Unfortunately, that’s how people think today. It started the night 1960s with what’s called the multicultural movement. And it really came out of the Frankfurt School, they came out during World War Two, there were a bunch of very radical left wing Marxists who ended up at Columbia University and a number of other universities. And they started teaching the idea that Western civilization is inherently oppressive, and they try to form actively a coalition of the oppressed. So it would be a multicultural coalition that would point out all the sins of Western civilization. So they got rid of the classical liberal arts canon, liberal in the good sense of, you know, liberating the mind to, to read the good books and understand good music, poetry and the like. This is, again, this is the world, given your channels as world of Adam Smith and classical economics and the like. And they got rid of all of that, and instead replaced it with really a radically sort of cultural Marxist curriculum. And I think in many ways, we’re reaping the whirlwind of that.

Jason Hartman 6:01
Okay, we are. But tie in a couple things for us. You know, there’s the Frankfurt School. There’s this Cultural Marxism concept that, you know, we’re now hearing more and more about, and then there’s the Christian philosophy of education, I guess, and, you know, then the Fenian before that, and as you mentioned, but kind of tie some of these things together, what do they have to do with each other, if you will? And then and then of course, Marxism, you know, so how did we get from Western society is bad, okay. Marxism would oppose that. That’s obvious. Where did the other factors come in, in the Frankfurt School? And and then what is what what specifically is Cultural Marxism? Yeah, who says, usually people think of Marx as an economist, of course, right?

Dr. Steve Turley 6:46
Right. Right, you got it. So there’s a change there. All right, let’s see how, let’s see how we can boil all that down,

Jason Hartman 6:53
Let’s unpack these things.

Dr. Steve Turley 6:54
Let’s unpack that, shall we? It’s great. Let’s start with that sort of classical Western civilization, Christian education, basically, the classical conception of the educated mind. So when I say classical, I’m talking about Athens, Jerusalem, Rome, you know, going all the way up to say, like the 18th century, and the founding of our Republic, and all that good stuff. The kind of education that marked our civilization was one that centered on what we call wisdom and virtue. So wisdom was understanding the divine meaning and purpose in the world. It generally was a Christian theistic conception, but it was it could be very, it could be translated to Jewish terms, Islamic terms, Hindu terms, because all forms of education up till about the 18th century believed the world was filled with divine meaning and purpose, which provided the pattern for how we ought to live our lives. And if we conform our lives, to that divine meaning and purpose, we’ve cultivated what’s called virtue within our ourselves. And we line up that virtue with wisdom, wisdom is understanding that divine meaning and purpose that the framers referred to it in the in the Declaration of Independence, talking about nature, and nature’s God, We hold these truths to be self evident that, that a rational mind can see that human person has innate innate dignity and worth that the world has a moral obligation embedded within it. And we’re supposed to conform our laws into harmonious relationship with that divine meaning and purpose and our curriculum, our school curriculum, we’re mediators that facilitate that harmonious relationship. And so the basic characteristic of that worldview was a radical continuity, if I have time, to be a conservative, for lack of better term, because I think this kind of education was conservative, to be conservative, in the broadest sense of the term was to be a traditionalist, and a traditionalist is one who believe that there are certain beliefs, ideas and practices of the past, that are indispensable to our human flourishing in the present and the future. So you see this lovely continuity between past present future it’s not like we’re traditionalist and necessarily stuck in the mud and just living in the past. I’m sure that can happen. But conservatism and traditionalism has the future every bit as much in view as the past, but what they do is they see a continuity going on there. What happens in the 18th century is very fascinating. It’s in Europe, it’s going on in Europe, and it’s called the Enlightenment, we all know it. And what came out of the Enlightenment, however, was this notion of modernity and and the modern world.

Jason Hartman 9:37
So 1800s

Dr. Steve Turley 9:39
So we’re talking. Yeah, so is there 18th century so we’re targeting 18th the 1700s 1800s in the light, technically,

Jason Hartman 9:46
who was the who was the sort of a person behind this?

Dr. Steve Turley 9:50
Oh my if somebody is doing manual cons would be a big one, David Hume, the Scottish philosopher be another and what is so characteristic about this movement is they believed that they could redefine knowledge in such a way that excluded anything that couldn’t be scientifically verified. So what scholars think is the kind of the lasting inheritance of the Enlightenment was the notion that scientific rationalism was really the one size fits all way of understanding reality. And if you had anything other than something scientifically rational, then it’s superstitious, it’s personal, you know, it’s tribalistic, it’s Savage, it certainly doesn’t belong in a new vision of civilized man. So you end up having this idea of a modern world, as over against a pre modern world that then got relabeled as the Dark Ages as going against the enlightenment. And so what you’ll notice there, what’s so fascinating, is in contrast to the way we did Western civilization for all the centuries, now you’re seeing a radical disruption in history. So now, history, anything prior to this sort of, I like to call it the first great awakening, you know, the first version? Yeah, right. The first time that this enlightenment, this way we woke now to a whole new way of looking at the world has rendered everything else prior to it in the past, as undesirable it has it no longer has any relevance to what we’re doing today. Because scientific rationalism is the one size fits all way of understanding the world that is first then eventually to a new education system that gets highly influenced by Marx, because what Marx is, is he’s the 19th century outworking par excellence of that view, anything that preceded the modern world is tainted, it’s bigoted, it’s filled with all kinds of inequities, and all kinds of ways people are abused in terms of, you know, social power and all and the like.

Jason Hartman 12:03
So these modernists, then, I mean, would it be fair to call them modernists? Absolutely, um, they would downplay the role of philosophy, and say, well downplay the role of the Magna Carta, I guess, yeah. And trial by jury, and all of these great things these evil white religious men gave us?

Dr. Steve Turley 12:25
That’s right, you got it, because again, anything prior to the Great Awakening, and that happens first in the 18th century, that sense, is now deemed to be it, you know, inescapably tainted with all kinds of superstitions and social evils in the light. This is where you get the idea that the age of religion is a world of just war, and savagery, and burning witches and all that, whereas the age of reason is, you know, Star Trek, you know, the the final frontier, and we’re all going to find this wonderful universal harmony through the use of reason. Now, again, there’s wonderful things that come out of this. It’s not terribly I like antibiotics, you know, whatever it happens to be, you know, it’s a super travel and being able to visit places in the world that you and I were talking about, you’ve, you stand the world in a way that no human being could have done, just really in the end, just 100 years ago.

Jason Hartman 13:22
So it seems it seems the way you’re presenting it, it’s almost hard to debate one of these modernists, because who can deny the value of science? Science is very valuable. We all appreciate science. How do you say no to that?

Dr. Steve Turley 13:37
It’s a, it’s a fantastic question. And that’s exactly what happened in the 1970s. It’s really interesting. And this is primarily through a philosopher named Francois leotard, in a publication from 1979, called the post modern condition. What he found was when he surveyed Western populations, on the issue of Do you believe scientific rationalism is the one true way of understanding the world. People started denying it. They said, No, no, that’s impossible. And when he asked why, when you probe, he found that there was extraordinary disillusion with World War One World War Two, Vietnam and the like. Remember, the 20th century was supposed to be the century of unparalleled progress and international harmony based on scientific reason. It ended up being the bloodiest century in the history of humanity. And then we had a cold war where we could, you know, blow the world up several times. So but

Jason Hartman 14:39
But they would blame conservatives for that.

Dr. Steve Turley 14:42
Sure, sure. And granted, they may, but unfortunately, they couldn’t persuade the world’s populations, the world’s population actually ended up blaming the eternity. They blame the idea of a one size fits all political and economic and knowledge system for all people, times. In places, we went into the 19th century with that confidence, I mean, in many ways that was propelling a lot of the colonialism of the 18th century, there’s a one size fits all civilizational system for all the savages of the world. Well, by the end of the 20th century, we just don’t believe that anymore. And so we’ve collapsed in something called post modernism, or I should say, modernity is collapsed into

Jason Hartman 15:26
Before you, before you move in to that. It doesn’t sound like that would equate with the New World Order concept. Or the globalist concept

Dr. Steve Turley 15:34
Very good. So the bloody right, you’re absolutely right. So the globalist vision is still the modernist vision so that to understand this insane time we’re living and trying to make sense of it. Well, we understand right now is we’ve got a clash and the clash and that and people like Sam Huntington, you know, the clash of civilizations thesis back 1992 if you got if your listeners are familiar with it’s very fascinating. So you’d Francis Fukuyama from my old alma mater, Johns Hopkins, he was coming out after the, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union and he declared at the end of history, and that thesis was we finally arrive to the one size fits all political and economic system for all people, times and places not Western liberalism. Its chief competitor, Soviet communism collapsed. It’s dead. It had another competitor, the Nazi fascism that died in the war

Jason Hartman 16:28
So this sounds okay so far.

Dr. Steve Turley 16:30
So so far, and then Samuel Huntington comes in right around the same time of Harvard. And he says, Not so fast, Francis, not so fast. What happened to the Soviet Union and its breakup and it’s and a Russia lost a third of its nationhood in literally overnight, we’ve had 35 countries added to the world map since 1991. And just this balkanization that we saw happen as a result of Samuel Huntington said, that’s what’s gonna happen to the world, the world is breaking up. And it’s not because liberal democracy one it’s because modernity lost and the Soviet Union and liberal democracy, Western liberal democracy, were both rooted in this conception that there’s a one size fits all political economic system for all people times and places at Nazi fascist had their version it died in the war, then you have the Cold War, and the standoff between two different versions of it. One collapsing on Christmas Day 1991. And Samuel Huntington said, Just wait, the EU will begin to collapse. And even the United States may begin to balkanize because so much of our structures, our political and economic structures are based on this 18th century enlightenment maternity. And it seems that in many respects is what’s happening, but

Jason Hartman 17:55
But in a way that seems more democratic. Because the ability for a state in the US, for example, to secede from the union, if they don’t like the way it’s run, you know, Texas can go and that, you know, like I’ve said many times, if, if Texas were to leave and probably become the Hong Kong of the United States, in the sense that it’d be this economic powerhouse, because it’s a business friendly place, or at least they used to be, everything’s falling apart. But even Texas, because all the California is unfair. Right? So,

Dr. Steve Turley 18:27
Right, they’re very upset about that, too. I know, I know, lots of taxes. But yeah, you got it. That’s one of the key differences about the new nationalism than the nationalisms of the past.

Jason Hartman 18:39
I mean, I’m like, I’m not a fan of the EU, I don’t think that I think that’s a failed experiment from the beginning. You know, you’ve got slacker countries, if you will, with productive countries. And it’s like a welfare state, you know, they don’t want to pull the weight of the slackers that you know, want to take a siesta every day or retire at 48 years old. That just doesn’t work. And he and he can’t put all these currency, you know, make this whole one currency and it’s just impossible.

Dr. Steve Turley 19:06
Yeah, you’re articulating the argument of Nigel Farage, in 2016. And when June 23, more Brits came out and voted to leave the EU than had ever voted for a British politician in history.

Jason Hartman 19:19
Right. So we’re with them. So that’s a nationalist concept.

Dr. Steve Turley 19:23
That’s a nationalist

Jason Hartman 19:24
By the way, I was all for Brexit. On Facebook. I wrote you don’t want to happen. Congratulations, Britain got their independence. We got hers 240 years ago or whatever. They got theirs. That was true taxation without representation.

Dr. Steve Turley 19:38
Yeah, Oh, absolutely. No, you got it. You got it.

Jason Hartman 19:40
So would I be agreeing with a modernist then?

Dr. Steve Turley 19:43
You’d be agreeing with a postmodernist. So the modernist is the EU. Modern is the one size fits all. Modernity is dead, but dirty is dead. That’s what Sam Huntington thesis is. Madonna has died in the hearts and minds of most people. We still live under its structures. But our sentiments our inclinations or dispositions are postmodern, I see it with my students all the time. No one I can tell you, there’s no I can’t remember a single student in the last 10 years that ever came into my classroom said, Yep, there’s only one there’s a one size fits all political, economic and meaning system for all peoples times in places. Everyone’s differing back to culture, custom, tradition, identity and the light. And that’s post modernity and so postmodern is breaking up modernist structures, and it can be good to be really neat stuff, ie Brexit and the like. Or it could also ended up in a lot of conflict like we saw in the balkanization situation in the late 90s. And two,

Jason Hartman 20:44
You mean, in the Balkans.

Dr. Steve Turley 20:45
In the Balkans itself, yeah, probably

Jason Hartman 20:47
You’re talking about balkanization like a concept

Dr. Steve Turley 20:50
So I’m drawing it from the geography to the kind of balkanization we may be seeing here in the United States. We talked about like a tech sets, but really what’s going on, it seems to me is, is it’s kind of an ethno, tribalist sort of breakup, what’s going on here. So, if the world is going postmodern, then really in the end, you only have two choices. It’s very interesting. Either way, you go back to the sense of national sovereignty like Brexit did, and the way President Trump was arguing that then candidate Donald Trump was arguing 2016 where we’re going to reassert our border security, our economic security, right, bringing manufacturing jobs back home in the life and our cultural security celebrating our nation’s cultures, customs traditions, either we’re going to go there as overt against some kind of globalist, you know, EU, UN kind of structure. Or we could break up even further into what are called ethnonationalism or tribalisms. And that really seems to be to be the new battle line. So that’s forming in a postmodern world. And I think that’s how I understand Black Lives Matter movement and La Rosa and a number of other movements. That,

Jason Hartman 22:02
You know, there’s only one group that doesn’t have representation in this era. And that is yours truly.

Dr. Steve Turley 22:09
Yeah. The white male. Yeah, yeah. And Jason, that goes back, interestingly enough to the Frankfurt School because you had someone like Herbert Marcuse, who wrote his work on tolerance. And you can read it online. It’s from the 1960s. Most scholars think it’s the beginning of political correctness. It’s a treatise for political correctness. And he said, the only way you’re gonna overthrow the dominant, Western culture is creating that coalition of minorities we were talking about, but he knew that coalition of minorities have nothing to do with each other. So they needed a common enemy. And for him, the common enemy was the white male. And that’s why white supremacism and male patriarchy are blamed for every sin under the sun. So that’s, that’s how it sort of ties together there.

Jason Hartman 22:54
So you so you really think I mean, as much as we’ve got this diversity training and multiculturalism and these mass immigration movements into, you know, European countries into the US, of course, that’s actually backfiring. Or is there’s, I mean, these are cross currents. So it’s complicated, of course. But I mean, you look at what’s happened in Sweden, and it’s a disaster, the crime rate has soared. And, you know, I know I’m going to get some email from some person that doesn’t understand that doesn’t really look at the Real News. That doesn’t follow Peter Sweden on Twitter, for example, right now and just doesn’t know anything. Because a lot of this stuff, it’s amazing how a lot of this stuff just is not reported. You know, these car burnings, torching cars in certain areas of outside of Paris, or in Paris suburbs, you know, what’s going on in Sweden, what’s going on in a lot of these places, it’s just not recorded. It’s amazing how powerful this force is, like, everything you said, is the opposite of what the globalist want to do. It’s super powerful people, like the George Soros types of the world. And, you know, and maybe the Rockefellers and, you know, whoever else they want to, you know, and un agenda 21. They want to force everybody together. And they want to have a one world currency and a one world government, because it’s just a lot easier to manage. Exactly. Yeah. As long as they’re at the top of the, you know, the structure, great for them. But

Dr. Steve Turley 24:25
Yeah, it’s absolutely it’s the ultimate Corporation. It’s the ultimate globalist Corporation. They’re all I mean, all globalist. This is it’s interesting, because we this ties into the difference between economic Marxism and Cultural Marxism. The fundamental difference between the two at one level is cultural Marxists made their peace with the economy. They made their peace with money there. They’re all billionaires today, the Brazilian philosopher alaba Carvalho loves to point that out, he said, you look at the the top richest people in the world and they’re virtually all left wing liberals. They’re virtually All of I mean, I think I just read the other day of Jeff Bezos, ex wife and just given all these billions of dollars to

Jason Hartman 25:16
7 billion a day. MacKenzie, now MacKenzie Scott is seemingly a lot more generous than her ex husband. It’s actually really quite, quite shocking. How stingy Jeff Bezos. Oh, wow. And what a Scrooge, he seems to be. I mean, listen, I don’t know the guy, obviously. But, you know, just from what you can see in the world. I mean, it took them forever to start a foundation. And it doesn’t, you know, he doesn’t have to give any of his money away. Okay. I’m just saying, comparatively, the fact that, you know, he wouldn’t give people $15 an hour wages, the working conditions are not so great by any means. People, you know, had been suicide at his company, I mean, you know, with with a note that this was the reason I can’t stand the pressure of working in Amazon, you know, and of course, he’s built a great company, I mean, you know, sure. But when you’re that rich, don’t you have a little obligation to give back just morally speaking?

Dr. Steve Turley 26:04
In western. Right, right from a vantage point of Western civilization. Too much is given much is required. Absolutely.

Jason Hartman 26:10
In all of these people, you know, they spout all these liberal ideas, but yet they have all these tax schemes where they pay no tax, you know, they’ve got their they’ve got one entity in Amsterdam and another in Ireland and, you know, they they’re pulling all this money sucking it out of the of the economy that gives them all their money. It’s, it’s completely ridiculous. I mean, Amazon is subsidized by the post office, you know, it’s we’re all paying for their business.

Dr. Steve Turley 26:37
You got it. You got. That’s

Jason Hartman 26:38
Internet that our government developed,

Dr. Steve Turley 26:41
That that’s the elite. The political elite, if they factor in big time with this, we’re talking earlier about the yellow vest uprising in France. That’s, that’s really what’s pushing it. What’s one of the reasons why the republicans have been able to do so well over the last few years. Again, Republicans shouldn’t even exist as a party if you think it through, especially as a nationalist party. If the world was as woke as our media tries to constantly presented as but and again, remember, this is a corporatist globalist media. They’re they’re very much part of this.

Jason Hartman 27:13
Soros media.

Dr. Steve Turley 27:14
Exactly. So they’re, they’re only going to, they’re only going to put forward a pro globalist vision of the world. But what we’re finding is that there is a massive backlash against that, particularly among white workers, white working men. Without college degrees, they came out and voted for Trump at levels we’ve never seen before. So you had almost 200 counties and Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, the so called blue wall that voted democrat for the Democratic presidential candidate every single election since 1980s. turned around and vote by a 20 point margin for for Trump. This is we’re seeing the same thing in Europe, we’re finding that it’s the white working class that tends to be voting for the nationalist populist parties. They defected from the left labor in Britain does not have Labour’s constituency anymore. Post Brexit they all they all defected over to the Conservative Party or the Brexit party.

Jason Hartman 28:13
The group that was the two groups that need to effect from the left are the African American community and the Hispanic American community. I mean, the democrats are screwing those two groups. I mean, it’s terrible, what they’ve done, they’ve just just ruined, you know, entire demographic cohorts. It’s unbelievable. That’s one of the things there’s another thing you know, you’re getting the message out in this kind of media environment is almost impossible.

Dr. Steve Turley 28:40
Sure, sure. But the old media is doing a fantastic job, I think the network’s society. Scholars like Manuel castells and yon van de these very interesting scholars, they they’re scholars of the internet. And they are fascinated by how the flattening out of information. So it’s no longer center that, you know, CNN headquarters in Atlanta, for example, at the New York Times, it’s all been flattened out so that you can have citizen journalists, just a kid with his camcorder, you know, running around and, and changing the world in many respects, that that has that has redefined news and especially in social media. And as you have to understand in 2016 of all the newspapers that endorsed are the presidential candidates to endorsed Trump, to the mainstream media had a monopoly against Trump, and he won and he didn’t just win. He’s the first Republican since 1988 to get over 300 electoral votes. So so there’s something going on there where the media, every poll over the last 20 years shows that the media is trustworthiness has imploded.

Jason Hartman 29:58
Oh, it’s terrible. I mean, the media

Dr. Steve Turley 30:00
Don’t trust it anymore. They just instead they’re going to podcasts like yours channels like mine in the light to get a sense not just to get lectured to but to actually participate in the understanding and the discussion of our world and what’s really going on. And that’s killing the the major mainstream Marxist media as I like to call

Jason Hartman 30:22
A couple of things there. You know, I would love to believe that that is happening. However, unfortunately, the tech tyranny world living is trying its best to defeat that. You know, the disgusting Twitter organization, Facebook, Google, these are the scariest companies on Earth. They are censoring medical treatments. Literally. Literally. Yeah. Really killing people or making people suffer. At least. They are squelching, squelching speech. You know, jack Dorsey is threatening to shut down the President of the United States Twitter account. I mean, this is unbelievable. It’s absolutely unbelievable.

Dr. Steve Turley 31:05
Now, but think about it, though. Jason, can you imagine if Trump opened up a Parler account? Or you know, or a gab account or something like that? He hasn’t done that yet. But he is.

Jason Hartman 31:17
Yeah, I don’t even know what Parler is. But yeah, of course.

Dr. Steve Turley 31:19
So these are these alternative kind of Twitter’s alternative Facebook’s and, and so for all tech is, as it’s referred to, as opposed to big tech. They’ll they’ll only be old tech for so long. That they can they can end up popping literally overnight. And so it’ll be interesting to see. It is frustrating I do. I don’t ever I do find in with my channel, I try to be a corrective to a lot of the pessimism that’s out there. So I swing over to the other side. But I do like to remind everyone we are in a clash between postmodern resurgent nationalist populism. On the one hand, against this, you know, this very stubborn hangover from modernity called globalism on the other and the clash can be very frustrating. But in the end, they the maternity upon which they base their lives has died, it’s rotted out, and if the roots rotted out, it’s only a matter of time before the globalists,

Jason Hartman 32:19
Oh, gosh. I hope you’re right, but I’m not so sure. I mean, look at the look at the age demographics. I mean, you look at the the I don’t know what the Gen Z’s are like yet. I don’t think anybody knows for sure what they’re like Gen Z, Generation Z, the youngest group, but the Gen Y the millennials, we know what they’re like, Okay. And, you know, I’m a Gen X or so I’m a little older than a millennial. These people have been brainwashed by just crazy educational concepts. And, you know, they just squelch free speech everywhere you look. And they’re going to be running the world in a pretty short time. So

Dr. Steve Turley 32:55
Yeah, okay, so, so good. So you have Alright, so it will be good economists here. Right. All right. So you’re, but you’re assuming a static profile for the rest of their lives? That’s not what we see. So Matthew Goodwin and, and Roger Eatwell. In their study on nationalist populism, they’re British scholars, was published in 2018. They found studies that that found that we become on average about one or 2% more conservative per year after age 21.

Jason Hartman 33:28
That’s happened before and maybe you’ll be right about that with millennials. Maybe they’ll grow up but I don’t know.

Dr. Steve Turley 33:34
Yeah, but I’ve seen in it just just personal and the anecdotes with Oh, someone I know very close to me, big Obama supporter, left wing democrat never ever voted and Republican or conservative, and was having to sit through an HR presentation on on what is that the the white guilt? So does the new one now, white fragility, that’s white fragility. And she had it, she said that said, I cannot take this nonsense anymore. It was a fascinating, it just added your anecdote into the into, into and this person, I would say his late 30s, early 40s. And just has absolutely had it. This person’s also reading Thomas Sewell at the moment too.

Jason Hartman 34:23
He’s brilliant.

Dr. Steve Turley 34:26
Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool. So So I, things are dynamic. And the thing to keep in mind is that globalism requires and liberalism in general requires a modernist conception of the world for it to continue. And what we’re finding is that modernist conception is breaking up. And liberalism is breaking up that Cultural Marxism is breaking up into tribal isms. And you’re going to find, I think, increasingly, that whites and blacks are going to be forced into kind of different almost this new form of segregation. But now on black terms is a very fascinating thing when BLM first formed in 2015, I think it was the University of Missouri, when they were first coming out after the whole, you know, Michael Brown situation and Ferguson, one of the fascinating things that emerged from there is really segregated dorms. They demanded that the dorms be segregated according to race orientation programs reset resegregate.

Jason Hartman 35:24
That’s such a terrible idea. Like, it’s extremely simple to become free. I mean, my best childhood friend was African American, of course, and, and, you know, don’t you want people to mix and like, isn’t that the point of multiculturalism?

Dr. Steve Turley 35:39
Exactly. And this well, multiculturalism was modern, you say, and it’s unraveling. Now, what’s trying to hold it together is civic nationalism. 90% of our nations are poly ethnic, and civic nationalism has a flag and it has a national anthem, and it has all these wonderful civic symbols that hold our country together in a unified culture. Even though we may be of multiple ethnicities. Generally, there’s a dominant, you know, ethno cultural tradition in there. But after cultural traditions tend to be net positives. I like to point out to people that the last 20 years of sumo wrestling champions have either been Bulgarian, Estonian, Polynesian or Mongolian, Japan for 20 years without a sumo wrestling champion. They ended that that

Jason Hartman 36:30
Country in 70 years they don’t have any children.

Dr. Steve Turley 36:33
Granted. Now granted, that’s something now

Jason Hartman 36:35
It’s the country without people, period.

Dr. Steve Turley 36:36
Exactly, exactly. Well, one of the things we’re finding in Europe is sort of the resurgence of for lack of better term Kennedy’s pro life sentiments that are going on, where, where abortion is being highly restricted. And people are actually being subsidized for having families, Hungary’s doing this, Poland is doing this Russia, Russia big time, and they’re reversing their demographic decline, majorly. As a matter of fact, if I recall, Hungary has seen a 40% spike in children just in the last 10 years since they started instituting that, that supplement that practice. And so what you’re, I think what you’re seeing is you’re seeing nations having to come to terms with the fact that look, if we’re going to be really, really good to be modern, we’re going to be hip, and we’re gonna think, you know, nation doesn’t matter, culture doesn’t matter. Identity doesn’t matter. We can all just be consumers, and live in one big, glorious, you know, global mall, they suddenly realize they’re not going to have a nation anymore. They’re not going to be a people anymore. Italy is finding this out. And so what you’re seeing is, again, a backlash, a postmodern backlash, that saying no nation, culture, custom tradition are important is what gives our lives meaning and purpose. And no, we don’t have white privilege, we have what’s called inheritance. And inheritance is something we want to pass down to our children, because we believe it’ll give their lives meaning and purpose as well, that backlash is stronger than ever. And I think that’s this clash that we’re seeing, that’s going to play out into November and through the foreseeable future.

Jason Hartman 38:13
Fascinating stuff. You know, about 20 years ago, I wrote an article for a trade magazine called the Monologue Media versus the Dialogue Media. And remember, this is before social media. But it’s interesting to see how this has played out two decades later. And basically, my thesis was the right side of the political aisle, the conservative side controlled the blogosphere and talk radio, and the left side of the spectrum, controlled the one way media, the monologue media, whether it be newspaper publishing, yeah, I know, there’s an op ed page, big deal. But you know, largely, it’s one way, you know, book publishing, television, you know, anything where you can’t really call in and question ideas, okay, was controlled by the left political side, but where you could call in and challenge the host of the talk show, for example, or you can write a comment on a blog that was controlled by the right. And the thesis was that the ideas on the right side of the spectrum could withstand the scrutiny of debate. But on the left side, like look at Air America, the old left wing radio network, it just totally collapsed. Like no one was interested. Okay. You know, I guess people don’t want to hear Rachel Maddow hating everybody forever, right? They want to actually hear some solutions. And so it’s just kind of interesting how that developed. And the left has really had to kind of get its act together and mobilize its army. And they have, you know, to combat this marketplace of ideas, which is naturally happening on the internet, but now, you know, they control the big tech companies and right, they’re just exerting their their muscle everywhere you look. But it’s so really weird time we’re living in. What are we going to look back at Steve. Wrap it up for us.

Dr. Steve Turley 40:01
Well, you go I do I think we’re, we’re good to see 2016 in particular as as the Flashpoint when when things really began to to change, the right and left categories started to change. The left began to unravel in many ways into kind of a NEO tribalist, ethno nationalism. The riots as we know it today turned more into a civic nationalism, defending our nation, our culture, our customs, our poly ethnic traditions in the life. And in the end, I think it’s, it’s going to go the way of civic nationalism, I think we’re going to win I do think, especially with the demographic revolution that’s going on among conservative religionists, particularly Christians. We’re seeing, for example, predictions that there’ll be over 300 million Mormons in the United States by the end of the century and 300 million Amish at the end of next century, along with a massive boom of evangelicals. So we’re going to become more and more traditionalist. There was a joke in there somewhere, the United States can be evangelical Mormon and Amish. I know there’s a joke in there. I haven’t figured it out.

Jason Hartman 41:13
It doesn’t feel that way to me, but okay,

Dr. Steve Turley 41:15
You’re right. Right, right. It’s Well, again, it’s demographics. So it takes time. It’s micromirror. It’s watching a kid grow. And and then they’re just going to be some fixed points and flash points. We go, Wow, things have changed. So I think, I think, no, come November, we’re going to be very surprised that the result there. And I think we’re going to continue to see

Jason Hartman 41:36
Well, last time we were too, because, you know, the Trump voters just they just got sick of being shouted down by haters. And they just went in and voted. They shut their mouth, and they planned it out.

Dr. Steve Turley 41:46
And it’s only gotten worse since 2016.

Jason Hartman 41:48
Right? Right. That’s That’s true. And listen, I mean, if the democrats can’t put up a better candidate than Joe, I must be kidding me. I mean, you know, let’s I can understand if you hate Trump, right, right, since Okay, he offends people, and I wish he would stop doing that. But you know, Joe Biden,

Dr. Steve Turley 42:07
Yeah, for people.

Jason Hartman 42:10
That’s just crazy. Talk, talk. Talk about an old white man.

Dr. Steve Turley 42:13
Yeah.

Jason Hartman 42:15
Crazy. And all the Democratic candidates were old white men older than Trump. Steve, give out your website.

Dr. Steve Turley 42:21
They can go to Turleytalks. My last name T U R L E Y talks dot com, and they can also check us out on YouTube. Just punch in Dr. Steve Turley,

Jason Hartman 42:33
Dr. Steve Turley, thanks for joining us.

Dr. Steve Turley 42:35
Thank you, Jason. My pleasure.

Jason Hartman 42:41
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